So, how do you make the Lake District 'change and diversify' because it is too heavily weighted toward 'white middle-class able-bodied people'?

[Nanny0gg]

Richard Leafe, the Cumbria park's chief executive, said the Unesco World Heritage site must change to merit continued public funding.

I mean, it's mountains and lakes. What can you do?

And isn't that a tad patronising as well?

I'd be intrigued to see some market research done to see how they could improve diversity both in terms of class, ethnicity and disability

Intrigued because you know there is no how they could, or intrigued because you want more diversity? If the latter, why is that?

@chomalungma

I worry I think. It’s since Helvellyn via Striding Edge became walk of the year, a few years ago. It gave some people a false sense of safety - they see it as not much more than a walk in the park and don’t behave / dress appropriately for the mountains.

Norway signs

’s since Helvellyn via Striding Edge became walk of the year, a few years ago

Did it?

God - I've done that once. And that was interesting.

Hope they haven't done Crib Goch in Snowdonia. That scared the shit out of me.

But many countries do signs.

Your suggestion is not the whole LD ... and I might want to have a go at the "more challenging" trails up some well known
mountains/ pikes available without using technology to guide my every step. But than, it's true, i haven't been there in the past 15 years as I find holidays in the Alps are more affordable and more accessible to a non English white middle class family.
I even had free local public transport and half price entry fee to attractions... now that is very appealing when money is teight! Something that the Lake District shold consider.

If the latter, why is that

Is there a problem with encouraging a wider range of people to visit somewhere?

Ok I cant comment on most of this stuff cos I dont know enough, but the signposting thing I do know about.
So in Scotland is Galloway forest park.
It has 3 visitor centres scattered around it. Each one slightly different.
I mostly go to Kirroughtree as I love it so much.
Big cafe/shop/bike hire/showers/info which is level access.
And the trails are marked easy/intermediate/difficult, at all 3 visitor centres.
And a big board tells you how long it should take, so when you choose your trail, you see a colour code. Wooden stakes have the colour on, so when you get to a crossroads you know to follow the right colour.
Some trails are also wheelchair friendly, but imo only just.

I think this could be easily and cheaply done in the lakes.
I've not ever used the buses but i see them arriving often in the car park so there must be a few.
Dont think I've ever seen any other than white probably mc people there, but as I wouldn't have a clue how to get anyone other than white there I shall bow out of that argument.

As for maps and finding a way around, almost everyone has a smartphone these days, it's easy to use apps or Google maps or some other GPS system to find where you are.

I have to post the European Cousin again... see the difference?

@BettyJean

I was not intending to be patronising at all. I even put a smiley face in my post and a joke about worrying I’d missed one. I’m sorry if it came across as patronising as I never meant it to be.

However I think it’s important to distinguish between the paths you’re talking about (lowish paths in a forestry commission area) and the rest of the Lake District which is the majority of the walking area in the Lakes and doesnt have the same signage as Grizedale and Whinlatter.

@chomalungma

Yep, with Julia Bradbury.

I remember going over it with my grandad in very misty and oily conditions. I would only do it in perfect conditions by myself.

There are signs at the top of snowdon.
Still get people going the wrong way. Had to drive some people round the mountain last time we went up there.

@chomalungma

www.itv.com/news/border/update/2018-01-31/helvellyn-voted-britains-best-walk/

Irresponsible in my opinion.

This is an interesting read. The report seems to favour a move to more detailed signs like Those found in the Alps.

www-cloudfront.allerdale.gov.uk/media/filer_public/bc/7f/bc7f0623-fb5d-4690-96f2-71915d8fa4a6/sd19_cumbria_rights_of_way_improvement_plan.pdf

@chomalungma

Which is why I think some people view it as a walk in the park. It’s horrible in bad conditions.

Sorry about the multiple posts - WiFi playing up.

There are signs at the top of snowdon

I suppose that with the easy way of getting to the top with the railway, many people who may not have done much hill walking want to walk down. So signs help.

I know I have been up there and have looked at what people have with them and cringed. It can be cold up there.

Mind you, they've probably looked at me and wondered what the hell is in that big rucksack

As people can tell - I love walking in the hills and think that our national parks should be more accessible to people. It's hard for me as someone who is 'white and middle class' to know why people from different backgrounds don't access them as much as I do - but people from those backgrounds have given some reasons.

@chomalunga

Can’t say I enjoyed Crib Goch or Sharp Edge. I learnt about myself though - I’m happy on slightly wider ridges, in lovely conditions. No point terrifying myself again - I was so relieved when I got to the end of Crib Goch and Sharp Edge.

I like this from that report:

Projects that integrate public transport services with some rights of way (such as the South Lakes ‘boot, bus, bike and boat’ network)

Creating attractive short circular walks in and around where people live and visit, by making path improvements, links between paths and verges or off-road sections of path to make them safer

Improving information and awareness about what to do and where to go, and to encourage use by people who don’t currently visit the countryside but who would like to.

99% of Northumberland is white. What are we expected to do - force 50% of them out of their county and fill it with non whites?

Sure,why not? They've done it with big sections of our major cities. I can think of several vast suburbs of Greater Manchester that have slowly been turned into non white areas. One currently in progress is Gorton.

@VivaLeBeaver

You are missing my point.

People who arrive in the Lake District, having never hiked before should head to somewhere like Grizedale. Not straight up Scafell in the rain.

It’s entry level walking. If they like it, learn to navigate, practice, go out with a guide, learn about the weather, before going higher.

That’s it. The only point I was trying to make.

@BettyJean

Many other countries have decent signage on their trails. Surely they'd have the same concerns.

I can totally see an argument for not having full signs to Scafell. But OTOH, I know that there is an argument for relatively well signposted trails that are not as potentially dangerous as Scafell.

Signs could of course be done to make some nice low level walks - instead of having to use a map to work out where the footpath goes.

Create some new trails. Circular ones, signpost them. Make sure they don't go off to potentially dangerous areas.

Link up some of the many footpaths into a range of walks. Ensure the paths are maintained. Put up a simple map at the start.

So much stupidity, snobbery and outright cuntery on this thread

@lakeswimmer

*I mentioned Chinese and Japanese tourists to make the point that it's normal to see non-white visitors in the Lakes.

@Arnoldthecat were your friends in the Lakes or another part of Cumbria? I would be surprised if it was in the National Park as there are loads of people from all over the world working here. Some people in other parts of the county are insular and haven't visited the Lake District either despite only living a few miles away.*

Predominantly workington ,Whitehaven etc..not strictly central core lakes tourism area but not a million miles away.

I dont recognise class structures but for convenience id say that lakeland and indeed Cumbrian demography is predominantly white with the core ,lakeland area being white and as a base, middle class. Sure you see tourists who are non white and especially Asians/Chinese /Japanese but they dont live there. Workers in the hospitality industry lean toward Eastern block as they have slowly replaced the original white local workers who seem to have surrendered those jobs or saw them as unwanted/beneath them.

Having said that, there is bugger all stopping anyone from visiting the lakes. There is a station at Windermere and last time i passed it, there was no checkpoint at the motorway junctions. They also let non white use the car parks,all the hotels ,shops,restaurants etc. Great isnt it?

I think the cries of protest are twofold. We have those like myself who say,there are no blockers,crack on and visit when you like then there are the privileged residents and landowners who may be worried about their cosy existence being violated by foreign incomers.

I guess some people will come to the
Lakes though and think they may only come once .....so they want to do “the big one”.

Or at last a mountain with decent views, so if not Scafell then maybe one of the other bigger ones, or one that they’ve heard of.

I do like Grizedale but walking along forest trails isn’t the experience which people picture when they think of hiking in the Lakes so it may not be what they want to do. Maybe they’d be better off doing a smaller, less well known mountain but maybe these need publicising more?

Call outs for the MRTs due to being lost are more than call outs for being ill prepared due to poor clothing in my experience. So I think improved signs would be a massive help. Keswick MRT want a Warning sign put up one of the paths to Barf (infact I think they may have put one up themselves). This particular route on Barf is their No 1 call out location. People don’t realise how steep it is and get crag fast.

From time to time, there are posts on MN on the lines of I'd like to move to X town from city Y. I'm from an ethnic minority and worry about how my family will be treated.

There are always people who are super defensive and think that OP is accusing all white people from Y of being racists and don't understand that the OP doesn't want their race to be what people define them by. Lots of people have experience of being the only minority at school and while people weren't directly racist to them, they constantly suffered microaggressions despite being British in the first place.

People on this thread have listed the obvious like public transport improvements (needing a car automatically reduces visitors to a certain demographic) Over time, businesses like restaurants have financially benefitted from becoming more accessible, family friendly and allergy friendly. Devising easier routes for kids, beginners and those with disabilities etc would make it more accessible to people who'd like to give it a go but think it's not for them. You'll never have everyone going but demystifying it will help those who want to give it a go and could result in return visits.

I've not been to the LD myself but have lived in Germany and appreciate the clear signage at similar places. There are playgrounds, bins, loos which is also great.