So, how do you make the Lake District 'change and diversify' because it is too heavily weighted toward 'white middle-class able-bodied people'?

[Nanny0gg]

Richard Leafe, the Cumbria park's chief executive, said the Unesco World Heritage site must change to merit continued public funding.

I mean, it's mountains and lakes. What can you do?

And isn't that a tad patronising as well?

@VivaLeBeaver

Must be a different Lake District than the one I know then. There are plenty of signs (and proper paths) on the lower, easier walks.

You really shouldn’t be attempting higher walks if you are inexperienced, don’t have the right kit, don’t understand the conditions.

They’re small, tasteful wooden boards. Personally I don’t see the issue with having such boards in the UK

I agree.

The hard ones aren’t, for good reason - conditions on the top of a mountain can be different from ground level and can change quickly

True - but Europe seems to cope quite well with this stuff. We were in Norway recently and many of the trails were well signposted.

Norway has a great attitude towards the outdoors and accessibility. Many walking huts, freedom to roam and a freedom to pitch a tent in many places. The UK has a slightly different attitude towards the countryside - especially on where you are allowed to walk and to pitch your tent. And God forbid you want to canoe on a river. That's not that easy.

@VivaLeBeaver

On what basis don’t outlying fells count?

@VivaLeBeaver

Oh, were you ticking boxes?

As a (white, middle class) Londoner, I always find it surprising that so few people of colour can be seen in areas of natural beauty in the UK. I wonder if this is because these places are intimidatingly white and Middle class. I'd be intrigued to see some market research done to see how they could improve diversity both in terms of class, ethnicity and disability.

Really nothing in there suggesting tarmacing all the mountain paths or driving people from their homes, or calling everyone racists, and really he’s not even saying anything that’s particularly surprising or unusual. But never mind, let’s all continue with having a jolly good rant about Political Correctness Gone Mad.

@53rdWay Finally some sense!

This thread is a really good example of how people get themselves worked up into a disproportionately angry froth when they’ve just read something second hand on social media and not bothered to learn any of the facts. The number of posters on here ranting ‘who does this Richard Leafe think he is’ and “where has this diversity rubbish come from anyway”, when a five second google of his name will bring up the quote in full, the context and the govt report it relates to.

See the odd walking group around and it's all old white middle class people

I think the 'white' middle class bit is true - given my experience of walking groups. There are many that are geared towards younger people, older people - but my experience of them when I have been a member is they are mainly white and middle class. Other people may have different experiences.

@chomalungma

Wonder when things changed? Have you heard of the Kinder Trespass? Walking was an activity the working classes did to get out of the dirty conditions in industrial cities.

@BettyJean

Nope, not ticking boxes. But in my 40+ years of walking in the Lakes as well as walking a lot of non Wainwrights I have walked all of the 214 officially classified Wainwrights. And I have to say I don’t remember seeing any signs on any of them, nothing like the Alps type signs. Yes there’s a few normal “public footpath” type signs dotted about in the villages.

Grizedale and Whinlatter are different as they’re managed by the forestry commission not the Lake District National Park.

You really shouldn’t be attempting higher walks if you are inexperienced, don’t have the right kit, don’t understand the conditions

True - but I have never really seen helpful signs even in the UK on trails. Maybe a little sign saying 'Pennine Way - this way' -.

We live on the edge of the Peak District and already are plagued by the mountain bike brigade, off road motorbikes and jeeps/land rovers and assorted 4x4s with enormous tyres and raised suspension churning up the tracks and damaging the peat.

The idea of making the Peaks and Edges accessible to disabled people sounds wonderful in theory but there is no way you could manoeuvre a wheelchair over Stanage Edge, for example.

The idea of taking inner city kids into the countryside sounds great, again in theory. When my husband was a serving police officer (he’s now retired) he and a couple of other bobbies were tasked to take disadvantaged youngsters on an outward bound course near Lake Windermere. They had a great time - sneaking out and stealing some canoes during the night and setting off to rob from nearby houses.

@chomalungma

There are signs that say Pennine Way this way.

Wonder when things changed? Have you heard of the Kinder Trespass? Walking was an activity the working classes did to get out of the dirty conditions in industrial cities

Yes - I know all about that. And that's why access to the National Parks is really important. As I said upthread, I am surprised how difficult it is to get to the Lakes by bus from cities such as Leeds and Bradford.

5 1/2 hrs by bus from Leeds to Windermere. A journey of 60 miles. Not exactly a day out, is it?

It’s all very well saying you shouldn’t attempt higher peaks if you’re inexperienced but people do. And will continue to do so. So why not make it a bit safer by improving signs.

I think it’s elitism to argue that it’s a bad thing. Smacks of wanting to keep the riff raff out by dressing it up as faux concern that it will encourage people to go up in flip flops and jeans.

There are signs that say Pennine Way this way

Yes - I have seen them, That's what I said.

@chomalungma

I know! Thanks for repeating my post from a few pages back. I think it is worth reiterating too.

I have walked in many National Parks around the world and - for a National Park - the signage in them is far behind what you find in many of them.

And don't get me started on the attitude towards rights of way and countryside access.

I think that’s what @chomalungma is saying, that there are the odd sign saying pennine way this way.....which I’ve definitely seen in Edale. But once you’re on the Pennine way you’re not far out of edale when you’re faced with a junction where you need to turn right and there’s no signs.

In the Alps there would be a sign. If you hike something like the PCT or Appalachian trail in America there’s fairly regular marker signs.

@VivaLeBeaver

You realise you are unusual? Hikers are normally a friendly, non patronising bunch.

I grew up in Cumbria. My grandad was and cousins are in mountain rescue. I’ve been hiking since I was small.

Ha ha. And there was me sat here wondering why you are so snippy @Bettyjean. Both to me and other posters.

What have I said that’s patronising?

You’ve been sneery to me with your post telling me I was box ticking.

Not really sure what your relatives hiking credentials have to do with this But if we’re playing who’s the best hiker bingo I used to be a member of a mountain rescue team.

@VivaLeBeaver

“I think it’s elitism to argue that it’s a bad thing. Smacks of wanting to keep the riff raff out by dressing it up as faux concern that it will encourage people to go up in flip flops and jeans.“

Nope, having heard my grandad and cousins stories (volunteer mountain rescue in Cumbria) I believe that people shouldn’t just wander up a mountain, unless they know what they are doing. It is about keeping people safe, not keeping the riff raff out.

Hikers are normally a friendly, non patronising bunch

When I see someone on a difficult peak wearing inappropriate gear, I do judge, to be honest. Especially as conditions can change. I do worry what could happen to them.

But I do know I would have appreciated the odd sign on the hills. Just to reassure me that I was where I was. Even though my map reading is very good.

But better signs would improve safety. How can people not see that?

@VivaLeBeaver

You were snippy first.

“You do realise there is no wainwright in Grizedale don’t you”.

“Oh, that’s an outlying fell, it doesn’t count”

Patronising much. So I responded to you, in the same way that you spoke to me.

I believe that people shouldn’t just wander up a mountain, unless they know what they are doing

I do too. But you can't stop people wandering up a mountain. There is no test or guards.

However - signs do help people. I can see the argument for not having them - and I can see the argument for having them. However - many countries do have them.