To know understand how this happens - non gift-giving partners

[Rinoachicken]

Not a TAAT but inspired by a number on this theme.

Every year there are threads by (mainly) women, hurt and upset because their (mainly) husbands have once again forgotten to get them a Christmas present, or couldn’t be bothered, or its something like a bag of tea etc.

And I am NOT talking about people who by mutual agreement don’t give presents. So please don’t bring that in.

But I genuinely don’t understand how you get to this point in your life/marriage?

Presumably when you first met, you got each other presents at Christmas, and presumably they were acceptable/thoughtful etc. So what happened? Did it just suddenly happen one year that the husband can’t be bothered? Why is it not a huge deal at that point? Why is it then allowed to continue year after year until the point where the woman is posting on Mumsnet wondering if she’s being unreasonable for dating to hope for a Christmas present?! FFS!!

Do women value themselves so little now that we don’t even believe we are worth something? Worth being thought about, cared about, worth someone who supposedly loves us taking just a small amount of time and effort to buy us a gift on what is the biggest gift giving day of the year in this country??!!

I am genuinely shocked and actually a bit depressed that up and down the country this morning are so many women who are trying to hide their hurt and upset, and in all likelihood will not confront their husbands and so it will happen again next year, until in the end they don’t even expect anything anymore.

How the fuck do this men even think for one second that this is ok?? And I don’t want to hear any bullshit about how ‘men find it harder to buy presents, are shit at it’ etc. Bollocks. They can shop for themselves when they want to, buy clothes, music, gadgets, whatever the fuck they want, FOR THEM. You would hope that at least SOME would be ashamed that they could not be bothered to make the effort (and if you shop online it’s literally the finest effort), that they’d have a long hard look at themselves and how they treat the person they supposedly love.

But I doubt it.

I have lived with someone like this for 20 years and this is the last year i will be doing so as we have separated but still living in same house, this was a major contributing factor for my decision. I also don’t want my children to grow up thinking this is acceptable

I asked him not to buy me anything because I literally didn't want anything. He did buy me a big bag of various chocolates and a bottle of my favourite wine though- and I'm super thrilled 😄

I did buy him a big ticket present and he will buy me something when I work out what I actually want 🤨 it's been a big tiring year and I'm just happy to have a nice quiet Xmas with my DH and DS.

My husband just buys me books. It's why we're still married.

“I think the women who are sad about their gifts are usually already unhappy about something else, more serious, and the gift is just another symbol of that unhappiness.”

Bingo! You’ve hit the nail on the head here! I pity women who measure their self worth in presents they receive from others.

Totally agree OP, not sure why people despite your post se still saying "but we agreed not to"!

Presumably when you first met, you got each other presents at Christmas, and presumably they were acceptable/thoughtful etc. So what happened? Did it just suddenly happen one year that the husband can’t be bothered?

Nothing changed. The presents were never thoughtful. They were always late, the wrong size, a regift, or something his mum or sister picked out. What happened is that the hapless woman who married this guy convinced herself that he was thoughtful and caring.

Meanwhile the bloke is basically a misogynist. He sees himself as man the provider, putting food on the table (his table) because he is the primary earner - or even if he isn’t, that actually purchasing and preparing food or cleaning the house is women’s work.

The same is true of presents and all that “soppy stuff”. He sees that as her job too. The PlayStation she buys him is only his due. The garage flowers he picks up on the way home from the pub on Valentine’s Day are to stop her “nagging”.

There’s no real mystery here. It’s just another manifestation of the boring old patriarchy. Men are taught to despise emotions and emotional labour. Women are taught to eat their feelings and keep the peace.

Most blokes are rubbish at buying presents despite your hobbies and preferences being right under their noses every day.

I now give my DH a list of the things I want. I like very nice smelly/ beauty products but feel bad going and buying to for myself so I give him the list and remind him to get it. It may not be the idea way of doing things but I get what I want and I'm not pi$$ed off with him on Christmas Day.

Sometimes men buy the loveliest/most expensive presents for their wives when they are cheating or doing something terrible behind their wife’s back. They do this because feel guilty. So tell me again how is gift giving related to the amount of love/care they have for the wife?

Sometimes men buy the loveliest/most expensive presents for their wives when they are cheating or doing something terrible behind their wife’s back. They do this because feel guilty. So tell me again how is gift giving related to the amount of love/care they have for the wife?

God how cynical! Sometimes they do it because they care and love their wife and want to make an effort.

@spingly of course they do, you are right. But gifts are not the sole indicator of love and care in a relationship. Presents are given for many different reasons...yes they are mostly given out of love and care but also due to social norm, obligation, guilt etc. Present giving can be very stressful at times for many different people.

It seems like OP was implying that women who do not get a present are unloved and uncared for. I just don’t think it’s as black and white as all that.

Kurrikurri I am so glad you escaped your abusive relationship. I have had a day of being on edge today because I know my partner will make things horrible at the drop of a hat. I wouldn’t dare complain about my shit present from the pound shop or the fact that despite me spending eighty times as much on his presents, they are still sitting under the tree because he can’t be arsed to open them. Or the fact that he wouldn’t sit down and eat the meal I cooked until it has been sitting on the table for half an hour. I won’t complain because I am too scared of him using the chance to let his anger out at me, which I can tell he is itching to do. All I want is for our DD to have a fun, peaceful and happy day, and I have achieved it so far despite having to desperately bite my tongue. Am I a doormat? I am not in my head or in my heart. I hate him so much and spend everyday trying to get the courage to separate. But I am scared to do that too. It makes me feel more shit though when people judge and look down on people like me, as I never saw myself in this situation until it I was in it. And it is bloody hard to get out of.

Mummadeeze - I don;t think any one can understand the dynamics of an abusive situation unless they have experienced it. Others will look on and say 'why don;t you just leave' and it is so much harder and so infinitely more complex than that. I hope very much than you can escape your situation.
I am thinking of you tonight, above all take care of yourself my dear and keep yourself safe x

My DH gets panicky about gift giving, because he's always afraid he'll choose the wrong thing, bless him. I usually give him plenty of ideas, and the action of him going to choose something I want is far better to me than having "surprises". I also tend to ask for things that I can't really justify buying myself; for my last birthday, I asked DH to upgrade my e-reader because mine was an old version. The old one worked perfectly, so buying a new one seemed wasteful, but as a gift, it was perfect.
I have a friend who is disappointed every single year that her DH doesn't buy her gifts. She refuses to give him any gift ideas, however, because she thinks he should know her well enough to choose something thoughtful under his own steam. I can't get my head around this...surely better to tell him what she really wants and get it than no gift at all?

Kurrikurri thank you. Christmas Day is always the worst day. Am not sure why he wants so much to spoil it but I have read it is what narcissists do. Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread but thanks for the solidarity. People don’t really understand and there aren’t many people I can be fully honest with about it either.

PettyContractor not being funny, but are you autistic/Asperger? Because you seem to have completely missed the point of gift giving. The point is that a gift should be a token to show that you have put thought into making the recipient happy. It's not about the monetary value although of course some gifts are costly. If it is too much bother to put thought into your partner then something is very wrong with the relationship. Giving your partner cash is the opposite of gift giving.

I don't know what's wrong with these people. it's pure laziness, I think they just take you utterly for granted and think they don't need to bother. Why don't they start earlier in the year instead of only thinking about it if at all on Christmas eve.

In the beginning we would both buy for birthdays, valentine's, religious celebrations and our anniversary. Then we had two kids and bought our house. After that buying for the kids has taken precedent. Dh always says he never needs anything. We still buy gifts for our respective birthdays but not for valentines anymore and limit the spends for religious celebrations. For our anniversary we tend to go away for a short break which dh will usually pay for whilst I pay for food, entertainment whilst away.

He is never arsed about cards whereas I love them and have kept all the ones he has bought me. So I can understand how a lack of gift giving occurs.

I agree with you op. If my 17 and 13 year old sons are capable of buying, wrapping, and organising gifts they know I’ll love (and have been doing so for about 5 years) then no adult man has any excuse not to. And it absolutely isn’t about the amount spent (I’m totally happy with my favourite chocolate bar, or a bottle of dove shower gel) it’s about the thought.

I think the qualifier has to be if they have asked what you want. If you say nothing then I don’t think money should be spent on something that isn’t wanted. Also if you want a surprise then say so and tell them if you want spoilt or a little luxury.
Even better just tell them exactly what you want why are people so set on a surprise, there is a reason kids write lists!

In the past I have had diamond earrings, leather jacket and expensive bags. This year I told DH not to bother because there is nothing I am hankering for so why waste money? So yes chocolates and wine but it is not an issue because we have talked about it!

Only minimal gifts, no big spends. We also have birthdays in winter. So its kinda obvious that we can't really splash out all at once. We still buy ourselves bigger things, like gadgets, throughout the year - when the time comes, when there's a good deal, etc.

@NataliaOsipova @Witchend etc. the problem is that you didn't read or didn't understand the op.
Seriously people, it's amazing how many of you don't understand written text.
OP, yanbu. I think KurriKurri is right, it starts slowly and becomes the new normal.

We keep saying we'll stop doing gifts (though he still surprises me with something) as we don't need or want anything. Christmas is about the kids for us now and we have plenty of treats throughout the year.