To know understand how this happens - non gift-giving partners

[Rinoachicken]

Not a TAAT but inspired by a number on this theme.

Every year there are threads by (mainly) women, hurt and upset because their (mainly) husbands have once again forgotten to get them a Christmas present, or couldn’t be bothered, or its something like a bag of tea etc.

And I am NOT talking about people who by mutual agreement don’t give presents. So please don’t bring that in.

But I genuinely don’t understand how you get to this point in your life/marriage?

Presumably when you first met, you got each other presents at Christmas, and presumably they were acceptable/thoughtful etc. So what happened? Did it just suddenly happen one year that the husband can’t be bothered? Why is it not a huge deal at that point? Why is it then allowed to continue year after year until the point where the woman is posting on Mumsnet wondering if she’s being unreasonable for dating to hope for a Christmas present?! FFS!!

Do women value themselves so little now that we don’t even believe we are worth something? Worth being thought about, cared about, worth someone who supposedly loves us taking just a small amount of time and effort to buy us a gift on what is the biggest gift giving day of the year in this country??!!

I am genuinely shocked and actually a bit depressed that up and down the country this morning are so many women who are trying to hide their hurt and upset, and in all likelihood will not confront their husbands and so it will happen again next year, until in the end they don’t even expect anything anymore.

How the fuck do this men even think for one second that this is ok?? And I don’t want to hear any bullshit about how ‘men find it harder to buy presents, are shit at it’ etc. Bollocks. They can shop for themselves when they want to, buy clothes, music, gadgets, whatever the fuck they want, FOR THEM. You would hope that at least SOME would be ashamed that they could not be bothered to make the effort (and if you shop online it’s literally the finest effort), that they’d have a long hard look at themselves and how they treat the person they supposedly love.

But I doubt it.

I find it strange and sad too. My dad never did much around the house, didn't go out much (e.g. never did the shopping) and if I'm honest was much more aware of his own needs than anyone else's (he's better now). Even so, he always bought stuff for my mum on Xmas and birthdays. Is it a relatively recent thing, or does anyone remember their DMs being let down in a similar way? (NB it's possible she just hid it well. I don't remember what he bought her)

My birthday is shortly before Xmas and DH bought me a number of presents. So for Christmas he just bought me a posh box of chocs. I guess he felt like he’d spent enough already.

The problem is you need to throw your toys out of the pram the very first time he does this!!! Because when you don’t it just sets a precedent. It’s outrageously awful behaviour especially given how much women sacrifice for their families and partners.

And it is really poor role modelling for boys and girls alike, seeing this indifference.

I went mental last year when I was forced to order myself something on Xmas eve in prime.

I bitched about it to everyone including MIL. I shamed him; and I know it won’t happen again.

I think people feel the need to keep the peace on Christmas Day, particularly if there are children or other relatives in the house. So they keep it to themselves and then in the following days lose the momentum to say anything.

Or you get dismissed for being materialistic.

I agree with M3lon . I'm not particularly interested in getting gifts myself (if I want something I buy it myself, and I don't like surprises) so I found it very hard to adapt to being with DH when we first got together (his family believe that showering a person with gifts is a declaration of caring about them). I was unhappy being showered with gifts and DH was equally unhappy that I was NOT showering him with gifts.

However, the point is that we've made an effort to understand each other. DH realises that when I say I don't want a present I really mean that, and equally I've understood that he really appreciates being bought "stuff".

Women who are upset because their partners haven't bought them gifts don't have partners who've taken time to understand what they want. Or perhaps they just don't communicate well. I have to admit I always wonder if the woman has actually taken time herself to understand what their partner want (generally because their posts are always accompanied by some statement that they put a lot of thought into buying for their partner - which is not necessarily true if the partner doesn't actually like the gift or would rather not have had anything).

DH and I do want stuff - but not the sort of stuff you just buy for a present - he wants a Bentley and I want an S class convertible. Neither are happening any time soon.

In the last three months we’ve bought a dji pro drone (his want) new Mac book pro (my want) new gimbal (his want) a coffee machine that cost over £1500 (out want)

When don’t NEED anything and if we want we are fortunate enough to buy.

So we don’t.

Sometimes we’ll do gag gifts (he got some sex toys for me to open just so I’ll have to tie myself in knots trying to say what he got me if people ask and so he can spend the next twelve months being the little boy Santa forgot - but it’s a joke)

To answer your question: yes some women accept anything to maintain a relationship and have massively low expectations /self esteem. For this scenario to happen once is unforgivable; to happen year on year then quite frankly, you're a doormat. Doesn't have to be expensive stuff bought. It's the intention and making the effort to choose something for the person you love. I can not fathom why women put up with this shit.

People on MN must be very well off to not need anything. I need things from a new mascara through a new phone to a new car.

If I ever get to the point I don’t need anything, I might feel differently but until then, I LOVE presents because my family make pretty accurate guesses around need.
I’d be gutted if they didn’t buy me anything.

But I genuinely don’t understand how you get to this point in your life/marriage?

I’ll bite. We are pretty wealthy. We have shared finances. My DH is not remotely interested in presents (giving or receiving; as a pp mentioned upthread, he’d certainly subscribe to the economists’ view!). He is, however, also very generous. So if I want something, I buy it. So why maintain the facade of buying for each other out of a communal pot, when I know for a fact it causes him a lot of stress?

My dad never did much around the house, didn't go out much (e.g. never did the shopping) and if I'm honest was much more aware of his own needs than anyone else's (he's better now). Even so, he always bought stuff for my mum on Xmas and birthdays.

I find this attitude quite strange too. Men that are pretty useless in most ways, but somehow entirely redeem themselves by managing to buy Christmas and birthday presents. Personally I'd rather have no presents and care and attention the rest of the year round. I do suspect most of the people starting the "DH didn't buy me any presents" threads, don't have either, but IMO they are fixating on the wrong thing.

To answer your question: yes some women accept anything to maintain a relationship and have massively low expectations /self esteem. For this scenario to happen once is unforgivable; to happen year on year then quite frankly, you're a doormat. Doesn't have to be expensive stuff bought. It's the intention and making the effort to choose something for the person you love. I can not fathom why women put up with this shit.

This.

We gave to each other but put a £50 limit on it as we have four kids.
We tried once to limit the extended family (he had five siblings) gift giving too (I did not need another gift pack of scented lotions) but that did not go down well. But I do think there is a point where action speaks much louder than a present, though I'd always want to treat my other half.

And I am NOT talking about people who by mutual agreement don’t give presents. So please don’t bring that in.

How the fuck do this men even think for one second that this is ok?? And I don’t want to hear any bullshit about how ‘men find it harder to buy presents, are shit at it’ etc. Bollocks.

You have a lot of strong ideas on what you do and don’t want people to write on a public forum, don’t you?

I chose and bought all the presents for our three children ( older teenagers).
I wrapped most of them. All presents were labelled from both of us.
My husband bought some earrings for our two DD and wrote just his name on the label.

Anyone whose partner didn't get them a Christmas present could comfort herself by remembering that last night Trump said he hadn't yet got anything for Melania.

So not only does she not get a present, she is also married to Trump.

However bad it is, it could be so much worse....

Those of you saying “DH and I don’t value gifts so we mutually agree not to” are deliberately misunderstanding what the OP has explicitly said she is not talking about.

What she means are blokes who are too lazy/tight/entitled to bother themselves meeting their partners half way.

And yes it’s shit. If your OH values gifts, whether material or otherwise, and bothers to get something for you, ignoring it on the grounds that you are too busy or important is a slap in the face.

It’s an extension of the “Christmas is a woman’s concern” problem which is in itself an extension of the “mental load is a woman’s problem”. In itself the lack of a gift is not the dealbreaker, it’s the symbolic “fuck you, this is your domain”. It shows a contempt and lack of imagination which extends to all parts of the relationship.

Very melodramatic. I don't measure my worth in gifts. My dh is rubbish at gifts for everyone, not just me. But he is good at other stuff.

OH used to be awesome at buying gifts. Then he turned slightly shit, then went completely shit trying to use the excuse of me having a bday and xmas close together for it and how hard it is to buy the week before Christmas and bla bla bla. I told him it was shit, his excuses didn't fly, he obviously could do it before and more importantly he knows the dates and has a while year to prepare. I also started making him a list.

Since then my lists get smaller,he always buys more than it's on them, puts thought into it and him and DD spend a fun day together shopping.

If you don't ask you don't get,but I think some women are terrified of asking and having the confirmation that their partner/husband really doesn't care...about their gifts or the fact that they're upset. It's a shit place to be in.

I agree with MarianaMoatedGrange, I think the OP is talking about the partners who have their feet under the table and just see their partner as part of the furniture. There's been a few cheaters threads I've read where the DH seems incapable of buying their wives nice gifts but magically are able to buy the OW a nice and usually expensive gift. Basically arseholes are still arseholes at Christmas.

If you are in an abusive relationship, Christmas, birthdays etc are oftne used by the abuser as an opportunity to mess with your emotions and exhibit control.
I was in such a relationship and I always dreaded Christmas, because I never knew when, whether or how he was going to kick off.
There was always the possibility of a bog row over nothing on the day or the day before.
Regarding presents it could be either : no present (because he didn;t have time, we couldn't afford it, I'd sent too much on the children etc) a present that was expensive and essentially for him but wrapped in a parcel with my name on it (one year it was a gizmo to go on his computer - I didn't have or use a computer at that point, it was a very expensive gizmo) on a couple of occasions when we said (to my relief because I dreaded the gift aspect so much) that we wouldn;t bother just get something for the kids he deliberately went out and got something expensive (perfume or jewellery - something to show me up, not actually connected in any way to my likes or dislikes).
He would request expensive presents from me, which were very particular and hard to find. I'd traipse round shops trying to get the right thing. Sometimes he would buy himself a very expensive gifts (a racing bike one year) and I would get nothing.

Why did I put up with it - because it grows little by little and you start to think it is the norm. Because we had children and I mistakenly thought staying together would give them a better life.
Why did I marry him ? because I grew up in a very disfunctional family and I have always accepted small amounts of loving behaviour in between a whole lot of abuse as a norm, and learned to be grateful for it, because I believed that was all I was worth.
I put up with abuse, mostly emotional (occasionally physical) because I believed I was there to deflect his anger and contempt away from the children, so they didn't grow up with the same desperately low self esteem I had.

But now I have escaped. My gifts this Christmas were given with love from people who know me and love me. Not expensive fancy things, - my favourite smellies, seeds for my garden (I am a fanatical gardener) and a big fat book to snuggle up with. I'm thrilled with them and as I enter my seventh decade of life I can finally just relax and have the freedom and calm that I have never had since childhood. And I don't need expensive gifts to know that I am valued and loved - those are the greatest gift of all.

I think it can happen gradually. Eg perhaps you get someone who tries initially but is just a bit hopeless, and their well meant efforts tend to be wide off the mark. Over time they become disenchanted with gift giving because they feel they "never get it right". They start getting increasingly generic gifts. Eventually, they procrastinate each year then end up buying whatever crap they can get on December 23rd. Or they get nothing at all.

I'm not excusing this behaviour at all fyi, if you are a bit crap at gifts I think better to ask the recipient for ideas. But some families frown strongly on asking for gifts in any form and are totally against this.... those people are stuffed if they insist on buying surprises but are crap at it!!

Buying something for yourself is a completely different thing than buying for someone else. For a start, you only buy for yourself when you want it, because you know you want it, and have the money to buy it.

This.
I could go down to the shops and buy acres of haberdashery. I'd have a lovely time, and could spend days in a good shop. I would plan a couple of outfits for specific occasions, choose the fabrics and all the extra bits needed to make it really nice.
Dh could spend weeks browsing on computer sites and deciding exactly which parts to buy for a new computer.

But his taste in fabrics is very different to mine. he also doesn't know which fabrics would be best for a particular outfit. It would be okay, but it wouldn't be exactly what I wanted, so I'd feel I'd compromised.
I don't know enough about computers to know what is worth paying extra for and what isn't. I also don't know what he would regard as important to have, nor what is a good price, nor the best places to get it from.

And for both of us, spending the time choosing and window shopping for it is half the pleasure.
So we've reached a compromise. If there is something one of us wants, then we ask the other for exactly what we want. Otherwise we stick to little presents.
Last year he got me an overlocker. I've wanted one for ages,. I gave him 3 models I liked the look of. I didn't get him anything big.
This year he had a extra special computer mouse he wanted. So I've got him that, and he's got me chocolates.

We're totally happy with that, so what's the problem?

Well, my marriage must be a sorry state of affairs, then. Because I never know what to get my hubby and he doesn't know what to get me that's not useless and overly expensive.
I'm crap at buying pressies , including for my parents. I just can't imagine what anyone would like, then put it off until the last moment and wish I wouldn't have to.

This year, we decided that from now on, we would get the family something we need every year. So much more relaxing.

Apart from pressies for the children obviously.

Kikibo I'm a bit like that ..honestly, DH has everything (high income). Whenever he wants something he buys it, and he's extremely particular about things - I knew he wanted a replacement for an old pair trousers & took a punt on buying some for him. I thought i had got a pretty similar pair. Apparently they aren't quite the right shade. He (and i tbh) aren't bothered about gifts really either. He does lots of supportive and caring things for me to show his affection, we don't place much value on material gifts.

The non gifters don't give a shit. They stopped caring and the wife stopped being important to them. People can beat around d the bush all they want but this is what has happened. They have got them, now they don't need to bother. And they're not too fussed if they lose them either. There's no value there and no love.