What are the main identifiers of those who describe themselves as lower middle classes?

[Rosehip10]

As distinct from middle/upper middle.

"A high street solicitor won’t necessarily be the same class as a public school educated QC."
Very true. But not all QCs are privately /publicly educated these days.

Tabby
No public schools refer to the Clarendon Commission schools.

So Eton is a public school but Oundle or Cranleigh aren’t
People use public school as shorthand for private schools but it is actually a subset.

The Upper classes traditionally thought using French words was trying too hard to be smart and actually a marker of being lower class.

NB smart as in posh

Posh is also LC apparently

The meaning of "public school" has actually evolved over time.

It's less restricted than it used to be. Even when I was at school, there was a thing called "minor public schools".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)

Just working class with a bit more money (which they usually spend instantly on useless crap). Doesn’t have private health insurance unless work pays for it. Sends children to state schools. Low level of education themselves (May have been to university but doesn’t know their Cicero from their Kant and spends their spare time watching tv or getting drunk instead of reading political theory). There are differences in diet and vocabulary too. A good test is asking yourself whether that snobby pale man who is always on tv/crappy newspapers giving etiquette advice would crinkle his nose at the person in question.

@TabbyMumz there is a big distinction between the ones who are and the ones who aren’t. The less intellectual members of the former usually viewing the latter as ‘diversity’ appointments who really don’t belong.

"Apublic schoolinEngland and Walestraditionally refers to one of sevenprivate schoolsgiven independence from direct jurisdiction by thePublic Schools Act 1868:Charterhouse,Eton College,Harrow School,Rugby School,Shrewsbury School,Westminster School, andWinchester College. These were all-maleboarding schools, but many now accept day pupils as well as boarders. By the 1930s the 'public school' label applied to twenty-four schools.[1]Today the term is more generally used to refer to any fee-paying private school."

Most private boarding schools also refer to themselves as either Independent, private, or public, although the term "public" is a bit old fashioned now and not used as much, in my opinion.

NewName
I am sure that it is correct that it is changing. A pp was making a distinction between public and private schools and Tabby was questioning that. I don’t think public and private are yet synonymous.

Public School v expensive, v posh, male boarding, original charitable foundation

Private / Independent all fee paying schools

The wordNapkincomes from the French word nappe which is a cloth for covering a table

Tabby I wonder when the "kin" was added and why? I know that they used to call nappies "napkins". I've read it in books from as recent as the 1930s.

Could it be from the German "kinder"? Or something else?

"Private / Independent all fee paying schools"

Except you can have very private, very expensive posh boarding schools for girls too. For example, the school Princess Anne went to, Benendon.
I think there can also be a big distinction between the local private fee paying day school, and a private girls boarding school.

Tabby
I recommend
Watching the English by Kate Fox

The class system in England is hugely complex.

Just working class with a bit more money (which they usually spend instantly on useless crap).

Define crap?

Sends children to state schools

So most of the population then?

* doesn’t know their Cicero from their Kant* & spends their spare time watching tv or getting drunk instead of reading political theory)

Does Game of Thrones, House of Cards not count? Oh & I listen to rap😆

Tabby
That is why what school did you go to is still a massive class marker in the UK. Why is it an issue that Boris went to Eton.

@TabbyMumz You are oversimplifying in the sense that you see private schools (including public) as schools that you pay a fee for the education. There is, like everything a complete "hierarchy" of fee-paying schools and I can assure you that Eton/Winchester/Westminster are very different in this to a generic day private school. You would not be told off in Winchester for saying "what"

My DC went to London Independents. Very high performing ones that are as selective as the v well known boarding schools, if not more, and regularly in the Press. We'd never have contemplated Eton or Charterhouse or even Bendenden.

My DC went to London Independents. Very high performing ones that are as selective as the v well known boarding schools,

Well, some people might think that Eton will be a better fit for their child or they might just suffer from a lot of class anxiety.

Everyone tells me I’m middle class and laughs if I say I’m not.

Was born in east London council estate.

So LMC would fit.

Gwenhwyfar, I do hope that some people feel lucky, but I also hope that others don’t feel small because of it. Sorry I couldn’t reply earlier, I was helping someone without the same privileges that I have.

I don’t think you can say all teachers are middle class.

I was amazed she was a teacher. She got into a terrible fight when drunk out in town one night and left teaching, local gossip is that she was struck off the teaching register. I’m not even sure I’d have said she was working class to be honest. She was more of an underclass! 🤷‍♀️

"TabbyMumzYou are oversimplifying in the sense that you see private schools (including public) as schools that you pay a fee for the education. There is, like everything a complete "hierarchy" of fee-paying schools and I can assure you that Eton/Winchester/Westminster are very different in this to a generic day private school. You would not be told off in Winchester for saying "what""

I realise there is a hierarchy....but it is not as simple as Eton at the top and all the rest clumped together as the lesser known. There are a multitude of extremely expensive private schools that are up there with Eton, it's just that Eton, Winchester and the like are the more well known. My point was that the majority of the top end boarding schools, see themselves as private schools too. A poster thought if you used the term private, one is referring to the local private day school that lower middle class might go to. I dont agree. Princess Anne went to Benendon and that is known as a private Independent school, as are many others including the school Prince Charles went to.. And I do think you would be told off at Winchester for saying "what" . That's my opinion.

Girl’s schools have their own hierarchy Roedean, Benenden, CLC, Wycombe Abbey etc.

I wasn’t denying the existence of a class system in other countries. I was just saying that the English one is very specific in its rigidity. You can’t traditionally buy or study your way out of it, and it has/had many levels.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/02/say-posh-people-can-use-word-pardon-tatler-decrees/