To think the people who build new housing estates are on crack?

[NotYourHun]

What was wrong with roads in straight lines? And why does everyone need their own designated parking spaces with no thought for visitors? And how long does it take to include a postcode or area on bloody mapping software?!

I do community visits as a healthcare professional and am sick of not being able to find addresses because they make no sense whatsoever or aren’t on a map (including google maps/satnav), finding postcodes just show up in the middle of a field, and when I eventually do find a house, finding that there is absolutely no on street parking to be found and either having to park ‘illegally’ or walk for miles with heavy equipment.

@Chocolatelover45 complete agree with you! It's all up to the council though! Developers can suggest better transport and provide funding for it but unless council continue to support it and people actually use it then it wont stick. Theres a brilliant scheme in Chelmsford that actually gave all new residents free bus passes for their first year of living on the estate - I think it be interesting to see if that's enough to change long term habits of car use

@megletthesecond If they bother to put pavements in at all!

I'd honestly be tempted to look back at a more centralised planning system that has proper funding behind it and better governance and steer but unfortunately we have moved to a rather localised form of planning as people wanted it taken back into local hands - thing is, its failed to properly include local people (many have no clue how planning actually works or how to get involved to help shape these documents). But also strategic transport systems are what's needed and local councils dont have the money for this, CIL goes part way to help this but it's all piecemeal so it feels like years until anything about transport is done despite developers actually paying for network improvements at start of their development.

Narrow roads. That people, by design, have to park on as no driveways or drive way only big enough for one car. Drives me insane. Exh just bought a new build house that was quite expensive-yet the roads on the estate are impossible to negotiate as they are single lane most of the time. Drives me mad!!

The only way we can afford to buy would be through shared ownership, which always tends to be these new build estates. A couple of them I've seen have been quite nice. But there are some horrendous ones near us. We live in the country with barely any buses and no major train stations. People in these houses would be totally car dependent yet there's never enough parking. I've noticed they also make the shared ownership properties particularly shit, three storey rabbit hutches with nowhere to even put a dining table or wardrobes, yet the other houses not available on SO are nicely designed and more spacious.

And yes, the leasehold thing. A lot of people who've bought a place in the last decade are going to be screwed over by that.

I do agree that estates look better without loads of cars parked around, but if you have parking areas rather than driveways then it will prevent the uptake of electric cars (unless they add charging points in the parking areas).

I think parking around the back of houses would look better, and developers should put electric car charging points in. Our last house was built around a green with parking access at the back, we had small front gardens onto the green and no front fences or walls allowed. It looked really nice and provided a nice sociable area for children to play.

Developers aren't on crack, but it's obviously to maximise their profits.

Planning is actually reasonably tight these days, driven by government frameworks and tweaked to suit local authorities; utilising local materials/materials that suit the area, open space is a huge requirement as are 'environmental' ones (bike storage, car charging, improving building efficiency in terms of carbon emissions) etc.

Affordable housing is more complicated but a requirement, and less profitable for developers.

Try the What Three Words App, rather than postcodes. It is much more precise and the location marker doesn't change when roads/buildings etc do, though obviously the route does!

I'd also like to mention that no house built before 1990 had car parking in mind

Eh ?
Don't be ridicuous.
I was born in a house built in 1960, which had a garage and a drive
We moved to a house built in the 1930s - again, with a garage and a drive.
My parents next house had been built in the 1950s - again, with a garage and a driveway.
My 2nd home was built in 1960s - again, with a garage for our car.
I can go on and on.
Our current house - built in 1895 - is semi detatched. Ours doesn't have a driveway, but the semi we are attached to does, and also a garage.

Thanks for the information @Twittlebee -it is the local councils that are bonkers then. I mean, quite apart form all the families that need 2 cars (or more, where there are adult children at home), I still maintain everyone has people visit their house at various times. I mean, I know there are some bonkers people on MN that refuse to let family and friends visit, but everyone must have to have their boiler services, or a new carpet fitted, or even an Occado delivery, surely? Let alone visiting midwives / community nurses, and then - even in a new house - there will come a time when people want to replace their bathroom or windows, or have a new tumble drier delivered. Expecting there to be 'no cars parked on the street is just daft unless they give everyone a driveway that parks 4 cars.

Oops backforgood - that was my fat thumbs. I meant 1900. My gripe was with those who were saying how wonderful their Victorian houses with period features were and how awful new estates are. I just found it quite snobby. My point was Victorian houses were also built without car parking in mind and people don't seem to mind that.

Aha! That makes much more sense

Completely agree with you on this @Earslaps ! Its finally starting to trickle into policy but I've been saying it for a while now, how is the government target of electric car uptake going to be met if developments are built where it's hard to install the charging points? Issue is, developers wont put them in unless theyll see the money return and in first time buyer market they wont see that return so it needs to be in policy so developers have to consider it!

I live on an estate built between the 30s and 50s. Our house and street is 1930s. The houses have drives and garages. You can see how the price of land was going up by the width of the streets. There’s also shops , pubs and parks within easy walking distance which Is not something you often get with new estates.

Yup I know @BackforGood - most estates have approx 1 visitor space designated per 4 houses. Issue is, you'll be lucky to find it as they will probably be used by residents.

I just find it all so frustrating. The designers and architects have amazing ideas and the council policy makers often have the best interests of the local people in mind too but majority of the time it feels like none of these can actually transfer to how people actual will live in these estates

Electric vehicle charging points are already in government planning policy - paragraph 110 of the National Planning Policy Framework. The issue is that the technology is rapidly changing, so developers don’t want to provide a charging point that becomes the Betamax of ECV in 5 years. But they are increasingly required on new developments. Remember developments being built out now probably got permission 2-5 years ago, or longer, before ECV was a thing.

I am in the process of moving out of a new build into a pretty crap old end terrace. Despite the fact the terrace is in the middle of town it's not overlooked by any houses which will be amazing. The main reason for the move is that I am sick of driving 10 minutes to even get to the shop. It's ridiculous living so far out of the town but not having the benefit of country living.

It doesnt go far enough though @MagdaS it's so vague, no exact specifics and it's such a recent change too. Feels too little too late.

This is the issue with Planning, of course we need to plan ahead but we also need to ensure they are adaptable but how we can do that I have no real idea. I know there are viability reviews, maybe there should be similar with policy and technology when development takes so long to build out. But of course where do you draw that line?

But the whole point of the planning system is that Councils take national policy and shape it to fit local needs. So actually vague national policy is fine where you’re not dealing with a tilted balance, it can mean anything you want it to, provided a decision maker (either for planning apps or plan making) is applying rational planning judgement and mitigating an identified harm (eg to air quality).

If a developer wants a condition reviewed to deal with a change in technology they can apply to vary at any time.

Not that I think the system of local plans is perfect or delivers high quality development, I don’t. And five year supply issues = crap schemes getting permission, sadly.

Anyway, I am wandering into techie planning speak so I’ll get back into my box. But for the record I am neither highly paid, nor bonkers.

I'd just like to point out that people still buy them, and pay handsomely to do so. The developers must be doing something right!

No please stay out the box! It's good to have a fellow planner on this thread haha @MagdaS !

Like I said up thread, I'm just desperate to see more control taken away from councils on some policy to ensure things like charging points and infrastructure happen. How can councils realistically be expected to ensure that infrastructure is up to scratch to cope with developments? It needs to be more strategic but then we both know strategic means slow progress. Urgh! Just in circles!

Very true @KareyHunt and like I said up thread, even with the help to buy scheme it made sense for our first house to be an older property rather than a new build in terms of value

You’ll get EVC consistently when it goes into the Building Regs. Same with Passivhaus / energy standards. The planning system can’t deliver those in every development due to different material considerations and planning balance in each case.

Infrastructure, now there’s an issue and a half. No one wants to pay for it. No one does pay for it and pressure on services gets incrementally worse. But a development only has to mitigate its own impacts, not make a situation better. Then a developer can say that they are only having a 0.5% impact on something and it’s not significant enough harm to resist granting permission. Even though say a 250 car queue becomes a 260 car queue. Still awful for those sitting in it.

Sub regional plans and devolution were meant to deal with it but they’re just a mess. Too much politics to ever progress meaningfully.

Considering that a lot of people will pay a premium to have a new house, I'd like to see new houses built with more green credentials as being compulsory too - solar panels or whatever "green technology" works.

I'm a fairly senior local authority planner... policy writing as we speak. I am not paid a fortune, in living in the area I work in, have kids here, care about the future of the area. Honestly, in terms of putting into practice things we'd like to to fix the many issues raised in this thread, our budgets are shrinking, expertise with which to gather an evidence base to even begin to propose meaningful changes, and constant battles around localism and neighbourhood planning means we just do not have the resources. Also, the fact that we are the planning authority but not the highway/education authority, or the CCG who are responsible of healthcare etc, means the joined up planning is increasingly difficult.

This is nothing new - read a copy of the TCPA journal or an RTPI blog and you'll see that planners are the first to raise these issues. We need proper funding into local councils, regional planning back and more gutsy national policy and legislation around climate change as that would solve many of the short term jobs on my to do list!

Just seen @twitterbee and @magdas on this thread