Advice on how to tell DSD

[Goingwiththeflow2019]

Hi all

Not an AIBU but looking for advice so posting for traffic here.

Last Saturday my partners grandad was taking to hospital following a fall and had been on the floor all night. He is in his 90s. Was taken to hospital and he went with them in the ambulance as we were at his parents when the call came through. We live 80 miles away but was visiting his parents for a family birthday.

His parents asked me Tuesday when I drove to visit them to let my partner know his grandads prognosis wasn't great. He needed an operation but he had a chest infection along with other complications so likely wouldn't recover and without, it was a waiting game. They didn't want to tell him over the phone so I done it face to face when I got in. Understandable, he was a mess.

We drove back over on the Wednesday so he could spend the day sitting/chatting to him whilst I stayed in the cafe area working. His grandad is very old fashioned and said he did not want any woman to see him this way so I wasn't being ignorant, I was respecting his wishes.

The DRs said he was responding well to treatment and they were hopeful he could be moved to a general ward.... my partner left feeling 'confident' (not sure how to describe how he was to be honest but it was somewhat better than when we went in)

Tonight his mum text to ask if we were in and asked if I could distract my DSD as his dad would be ringing him. I took her for a shower and brought some of her toys upstairs to play for a bit whilst they talked. She was so good and stayed upstairs whilst I went down to get a gauge on what was going on

On further tests this weekend they have found his grandad lung cancer and it's terminal - they reckon days although will do what they can to 'prolong' as it's Christmas but they won't be reviving. My partner is a sobbing mess.

After 15 minutes I had to call my DSD down to have dinner but called her straight to the dining room, gave her a task of setting the table (she is 5 but desperate to be treated like a big girl) and sat with her to eat her food whilst he was in the other room composing himself. After I have tried to keep it as normal as possible by watching films, chocolates and said her dad has drunk too much coffee so has a sore belly which is why he's not eaten with us and gone to lay down for a bit.

Now the tricky part - I am so sorry this is so long.

My DSD loves her great grandad. She knows he has been poorly since the summer as she's not been able to see him - we don't believe a hospital was the right environment for her so she never went but he was discharged in November and she's been so excited to see him on Christmas Day. She asks about him at least everyday and after knowing we went to see him Wednesday when she was in school as he is 'poorly' again, she spent Friday evening and Saturday morning making him two pictures.

How do we tell a 5 year old he has died when it happens?

We don't want to taint Christmas for her but the same time, I don't know if the family will keep their emotions in check by not crying when she innocently asks where he is on Christmas Day (we are driving over to partners parents after Santa's been)

Equally, DSD is visiting her mum tomorrow with pick up Christmas Eve lunchtime. If I was to let her mum know now what is going on, she will just tell DSD outright with no warmth about how she does this so I will need to inform her after it's happened - DSD mum and my partner don't communicate the best due to her behaviour so I am the go between. It works for us and works in the best interests of my DSD.

Has anyone any book recommendations or ways to break this sort of news to a 5 year old? She's never had to deal with death not even from a pet ....

[BertieBotts]

I would tell her now that he has got more poorly, so poorly that the doctors can't help him any more and they think that soon his body will stop working and that means he will die. 5 is not too young to know about death, or terminal illness. She will be upset, of course. Death and bereavement is upsetting. That's OK, it's a perfectly natural reaction to have. It doesn't mean that she will be traumatised, even if she is sad for a while. And it probably will put a dampener on Christmas - it will for the whole family, unfortunately.

You can tell her a very broken down version of the truth she will understand. I think I said something like this:

What does it mean to die? It means that he won't be here any more. We won't be able to talk to him or play with him or visit him. He won't be able to do any of those things for us. His body will stop working, a bit like a toy that has run out of batteries. He might look like he is asleep, but he won't be asleep. When you are asleep you breathe and your heart beats and you move around and you wake up. People who have died can't wake up and they don't breathe or move any more. You can't stop being dead, it's forever.

Some people believe that there are two parts to a person; the body and the soul. We can't see or touch or hear a soul, but some people believe the soul keeps on going somewhere else (perhaps heaven, afterlife, to the stars, nobody knows) The body is not really the person once the soul has left. But it still looks like them, so we bury it or burn it, and we have a service called a funeral. That means everybody who loved the person can come together to remember their life and say goodbye. Funerals are sad. It's sad when we miss somebody and they have died because they can't come back. Dad (+ other family members) will probably be very sad for a while. He might cry or be angry. It's OK if he does this and we must be very kind to him.

About whether she can visit. I would explain to her that some people like to see a person one last time before they die, and some people prefer to remember the person as they were when they were well. Also that a lot of visitors would be tiring for him so it's important that certain people get to go, even if not everyone gets to go.

She might want to know if she will die, or if you will die. My answer to that was that most people die when they are very old, and she is very young. Parents are older, but they aren't as old as grandparents. The reason people die is because they get too poorly or because their body gets worn out. Or sometimes if they get hurt very badly and their body is broken. When you are very old your body is old too and then it's more likely to get bad illnesses which can make you too poorly to live. Everyone gets poorly sometimes, but they aren't very bad illnesses, especially when you're young.

[JustHavinABreak]

OP I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Your DSD is so incredibly lucky to have you. You're made for motherhood

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

Please please take her..... You can warn her that great grandad has lost weight as the doctors special medicine is not working. But he still recognises you and wants to see your pictures...

The under 10 rule... I find a bit bizarre... Yes I can see protecting kids... But actually you're not giving her a chance to process usual emotions, and see adults being upset... Which is usual and healthy when a person you love is sick and dying... and explain that her daddy is particualrly upset cos it HIS grandad, like she loves her granny /grandad... Join it all up for her.

[TreeSwayer]

Sorry to hear that he is terminally ill

As soon as possible, get your partner to record his Dad (using a phone or camera, his face doesn't have to be in it) and get him to tell her how much he loves her etc. Hearing the voice of someone you loved very much after they have died is really comforting. Usually there are photos, hopefully there are videos but a special message to have and cherish is priceless.

We knew with both our Mums that they were terminal which meant not only could we prepare but we could also prepare the children.

We also used Winston's Wish and Badger's Gift, my children were 7 and 4 when my Mum died.

[Prevegen4U]

I was turning 6 three weeks after my grandmother died. I was close to her, we even lived on the same street. I knew she had been ill for a few months and was now in hospital. My mum came to meet me on her bike while I walking home from school and told me grandma had died. I remember being very sad and then very angry they could not have made her better. She was only 53 and it was two weeks before christmas.

Grandmother had been knitting me dolls clothes and her daughter finished them after her death so I could have them for christmas.


This was he 1950's.

[starfishmummy]

The decision to take her to visit in hospital may be taken out of your hands. A lot of hospitals wont let young children visit adult wards

[Prevegen4U]

To add to my above post; I also had never had to deal with death before. Up until that time I believed a visit from the doctor would get you all better.

[twentynineyears]

My grandfather died in similar circumstances when I was a month off 6.

All I can remember is seeing him hooked up to loads of machines and not understanding what was going on.

Then my mother telling us he had died. She was very upset but I understood.

And then my mother having a go at me for being upset about something trivial in her eyes after he had died. I think it was about a duvet cover and she said "you weren't this upset when your grandfather died".

Because my birthday was v close to the funeral date my parents pretended it was the week after so they had time to compose themselves a bit more. I had absolutely no idea this happened.

I wouldn't take her to see him. I'd absolutely say your taking her drawings and I love the idea of a letter.

[HoppingPavlova]

With all due respect, your partners being a bit of a dick about this. Hopefully because he is too upset to think straight.

The little girl currently thinks her great grandfather is going to get better and come out of hospital. It’s going to be far more traumatising for that not to happen rather than her be properly prepared and see him beforehand no matter how ill he looks.

Never use words like going away/gone away, went away in their sleep etc. That will disturb a younger child as it’s intangible and they will worry it will happen to them or the remaining people they live. Use words like dead/died, body could not be fixed etc.

I used to work in A&E for over 25years and it’s really important for people’s positive bereavement if they can see a person before they die and be prepared prior, including children BUT they need to be properly prepared.

[Skidzer]

I was away with work when my Grandmother died. My DS was the one who told me. I had been talking to my father earlier that day and when he said 'X is dead' I said, no she's not, she's ok. He insisted that she was . I started to cry. It was a shock even though expected. Ds had to go to the funeral in my stead as I couldn't get home. I asked him straight after the funeral whether he was sad and he was like 'no, she lived to a good age'. I suppose the funeral was a celebration of her long life rather than a terribly mourning situation. There was a bit of a party afterwards, and ds got loads of money from relatives who had never met him previously. He had a great time and wasn't sad at all. That said, he wasn't as close to his great grandmother as your dsd seems to be, so it wasn't a massive loss to him. But adult emotions are normal in grief. Don't hide her from something natural.

[muddypuddled]

There's a really good video by CBeebies about talking with a child about death. I think it's on their Facebook page. At 5 children are quite matter of fact and cope better than we think they would do. She needs to know that he was poorly and couldn't be made better and has died and that it is ok to be sad about that but that she will always have nice memories to keep about him. Hope that helps.

[TicTac80]

Both of my parents have died in the last 2 yrs (my mum in 2017, and my Dad in May of this year - both quite sudden). My kids (now 13 and 6) were very close to them - my son particularly (as he and I lived with my parents when I was a single parent). I'm a nurse, so my kids are quite familiar with hospitals (both of which helped!). Mum was taken ill suddenly, and then died in ITU within 10 days (an underlying small cell Ca of the lungs, they found that 6hrs before she died). I knew 6 days in that the prognosis wasn't good. DS (then 10yrs old) asked me outright if she was going to die, and I told him the truth. We were in the staff carpark at work and I'll never forget his reaction: he let out this huge scream and dropped to the floor sobbing his little heart out. My DD was 3 at the time. They both saw my mum in hospital (and both saw her in ITU when she was on NIV/drips/syringe drivers etc etc - he's used to seeing machines like that due to where I work). DS saw her when she died too.

In May, Dad had a fall and got a subdural haematoma (he never woke up and died 4 days later). Again, both kids saw him and were there when he died. DD made my Dad a loom band bracelet and a couple of colourful pipecleaner bracelets, which she put on him after he died (and told the nurses to keep on him!!).

Both DD and DS went to the funerals (burials for both my folks). They also wrote letters/did drawings which went in the coffins for my folks.

BUT(!) it's an individual thing really (as to whether you take kids in or not). Some kids are "ok" with it, others not. Whatever you do on that front though, I think the best thing is to be honest with them, and explain things in a way that a child can understand. Prepare them beforehand, and let them be part of the conversations that families have (don't let it be the elephant in the room). Maybe also explain that the doctors will give GGD medicines to make him comfortable and not feel any pain or sickness.

My kids believe in Heaven, so it's a comfort for them to know that my parents are there. I let the schools know, so that they could look out the kids, and the staff were brilliant. I wish you (and all your family) the very best xx

[LittleOwl153]

We lost my mil in the summer to lung cancer. We had been open from the beginning with the kids 5 & 10, saying that her time was limited. She was in a nursing home and we visited fairly regularly. Infact I think the kids found that easier than I did. We visited on the Saturday - we knew something was up - she died overnight on the Tuesday. My 5yr old ds took it really well. He even went in with my DH to see her afterwards. My elder dd found that harder - neither her nor I went in but waited in the dining room. They both attended the funeral - both read infact. She still gets mentioned alot here partly because we have her house to sort and it being the run up to Christmas. But each question is answered without drama. Kids have coped.

Take care however you decide to play things out. It's a tough time on everyone including the 'support acts'.

[Foldinthecheese]

I’m so sorry that you’re all going through this, especially at Christmas. You’ve had lots of good advice here. One thing I wanted to mention, and which your partner needs to be prepared for, is that your DSD is likely to bring up the subject of her GGF frequently and without warning after his death. It can be quite difficult fielding challenging questions when the grief is still fresh, and she’s likely to ask the same things over and over again. My children are a little younger, but both my husband and I lost parents when we were teenagers, and my husband’s aunt died a year ago. I didn’t realise that her death had even registered with my children, who were three at the time, until one of them brought it up out of nowhere. It sparked the conversation about death and what it means, and now we go through periods where they talk a lot about death and ask about my mom and my husband’s dad. Sometimes they tell me that my mommy is dead. Even all these years since her death it can be hard to hear that so factually, knowing that she will never meet them. So, just be prepared that you may have to have the same difficult conversations several times, because it’s a lot for a small child to process.

[Goingwiththeflow2019]

I sat down with her this morning and explained what was going on using everyone's advice on here. I explained great grandad is poorly again and asked her to clarify how he got into hospital this time - he fell and his heart went funny was her response. She asked if he is near 100 as someone in her class said if you are 100 you die... I confirmed he's nearer to 100 than me and her. I said the doctors special medicine can't make him better this time so he won't be coming out and he will die but he will be comfortable and ok. Her innocent response was 'have they tried my black current medicine or they can try my orange one if they want'... I explained they tried all medicine but great grandad is ok and comfortable. I asked if she wanted to take his picture up to him and she said she'd rather not go into the ward but happy to go for a hot chocolate in the hospital with me whilst her dad goes into him.

I also explained her dads very sad and over the next few days nanny and grandad might also be sad but that's ok, being sad is ok. She said she'll grab me if she feels sad or upset because someone else is crying and we can go out of the room.

As I went to go upstairs to speak to her dad - he couldn't bring himself to tell her because it's making it real for him - she told me 'if dads crying shout down and come and get me Ok!' She followed me up anyway, gave him a cuddle and told him 'it's ok to cry to me and Goingwiththeflow2019, nearly 100 is super old anyway'


Thank you all for helping me have the confidence in doing the conversation but in the right way x

[Rainallnight]

Well done, OP.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

That sounds like a really good conversation.

[viques]

Well done, sounds as though she took a lot of it in so you obviously did it at just the right level for her.

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

Sounds you did brilliantly! Well done!

Your child will remember how you told her this when she is an adult..
I still have these memories from when I was a small child

[trixiebelden77]

I really loathe the terms used by a PP. I work with dying people and was present when my father and brother died when I was younger. Both died from illnesses that caused dramatic physical and neurological changes.

To date I have been with around 50 people as they have died and looked after many more in the last stages of their lives.

Not one of them was a ‘shell’ or ‘not who they were’. Death is a normal part of life, and the changes our bodies go through when we are dying, especially at a very advanced age, are normal and do not change the fact we are still human, still a person, right up until the end of our lives.

My father died before I started working with dying people. I was shocked by the number of people, years older than me, who told me they hadn’t been there when a parent died because ‘they couldn’t face it’. How we present death to our children as they grow up will affect whether they are able to ‘face’ it when they need to be there for a loved one as an adult. I know what kind of adult I want my kid to be.