Advice on how to tell DSD

[Goingwiththeflow2019]

Hi all

Not an AIBU but looking for advice so posting for traffic here.

Last Saturday my partners grandad was taking to hospital following a fall and had been on the floor all night. He is in his 90s. Was taken to hospital and he went with them in the ambulance as we were at his parents when the call came through. We live 80 miles away but was visiting his parents for a family birthday.

His parents asked me Tuesday when I drove to visit them to let my partner know his grandads prognosis wasn't great. He needed an operation but he had a chest infection along with other complications so likely wouldn't recover and without, it was a waiting game. They didn't want to tell him over the phone so I done it face to face when I got in. Understandable, he was a mess.

We drove back over on the Wednesday so he could spend the day sitting/chatting to him whilst I stayed in the cafe area working. His grandad is very old fashioned and said he did not want any woman to see him this way so I wasn't being ignorant, I was respecting his wishes.

The DRs said he was responding well to treatment and they were hopeful he could be moved to a general ward.... my partner left feeling 'confident' (not sure how to describe how he was to be honest but it was somewhat better than when we went in)

Tonight his mum text to ask if we were in and asked if I could distract my DSD as his dad would be ringing him. I took her for a shower and brought some of her toys upstairs to play for a bit whilst they talked. She was so good and stayed upstairs whilst I went down to get a gauge on what was going on

On further tests this weekend they have found his grandad lung cancer and it's terminal - they reckon days although will do what they can to 'prolong' as it's Christmas but they won't be reviving. My partner is a sobbing mess.

After 15 minutes I had to call my DSD down to have dinner but called her straight to the dining room, gave her a task of setting the table (she is 5 but desperate to be treated like a big girl) and sat with her to eat her food whilst he was in the other room composing himself. After I have tried to keep it as normal as possible by watching films, chocolates and said her dad has drunk too much coffee so has a sore belly which is why he's not eaten with us and gone to lay down for a bit.

Now the tricky part - I am so sorry this is so long.

My DSD loves her great grandad. She knows he has been poorly since the summer as she's not been able to see him - we don't believe a hospital was the right environment for her so she never went but he was discharged in November and she's been so excited to see him on Christmas Day. She asks about him at least everyday and after knowing we went to see him Wednesday when she was in school as he is 'poorly' again, she spent Friday evening and Saturday morning making him two pictures.

How do we tell a 5 year old he has died when it happens?

We don't want to taint Christmas for her but the same time, I don't know if the family will keep their emotions in check by not crying when she innocently asks where he is on Christmas Day (we are driving over to partners parents after Santa's been)

Equally, DSD is visiting her mum tomorrow with pick up Christmas Eve lunchtime. If I was to let her mum know now what is going on, she will just tell DSD outright with no warmth about how she does this so I will need to inform her after it's happened - DSD mum and my partner don't communicate the best due to her behaviour so I am the go between. It works for us and works in the best interests of my DSD.

Has anyone any book recommendations or ways to break this sort of news to a 5 year old? She's never had to deal with death not even from a pet ....

There’s a nice book called always and forever which would also work.
Age appropriate truth is the key here.
Kids cope much better than you might think as long as you are honest and trustworthy.
And don’t expect them to feel about it the way that you do- she might be deeply sad then desperate to play with new xmas present 5 mins later. That’s fine and perfectly normal. All the best to you.

I am so sad to read your update. Which states she won’t be seeing him

Children are affected more than that. Than seeing someone sick. For the last time. Trust me.

Just responding to poster above re funerals . All the advice these days is that children should go- again in an age appropriate way. Our 4 yr old went to crematorium to say goodbye but didn’t actually stay for full service- we felt that would have been too much for her- but she knew we had a goodbye thing and that she was there. .

@kilburnfrenchie. I 100% agree. I wasn’t able to go and it felt like it was my fault I couldn’t go. No one said that. They didn’t make it out. My grandmother was very strict. None of the grandchildren can go. But my 5 yr old brain didn’t register that.

Your empathy is great OP but don’t confuse your own feelings for hers. Children view life very differently at her age. Be prepared for her to be very sad, crying one moment and acting quite normally the next — their attention spans are short and this does not denote a lack of feeling. Avoid any associations with sleep and talkabout his spirit slipping away — leaving his sick tired body. That way she will not be afraid it will happen to her this side of old age.
As others here have said read the advice of experts and be as truthful as is appropriate. Tell her grandad will not be well enough to spend Christmas with her. This will probably feel more immediate to her and she will be sad about that.

Tell her he is very poorly and is in hospital first of all. Say the doctors are giving him some very special medicine because he is so poorly. Say it is a special medicine for very old people like her GG who are very poorly.

When you do get the news you can say that her GG was so very poorly that not even the doctors special medicine could make him better and that he has died which is why everyone is feeling very sad, and that it is fine to feel sad because her GG was such a lovely GG and it is also fine to remember all the nice things about him and to talk about him even if it makes you feel sad.

I've not been in your shoes I can only comment from recent experience of a friend's five year old when my friend's father the child's grandfather, died. They were honest with her, and she said she was sad she didn't get a chance to say goodbye so they let her attend the funeral (I was there I've known the whole family a long time) and they asked in advance if I'd sit behind them in the aisle and take her out if it got too much, I was armed with an activity book, pencils and a new toy I knew they'd like in my bag. She was excellent, she cuddled into her dad a few times and said goodbye to the flowers outside the crematorium, at the wake she was talking to different people about her grandfather and people were telling her stories about when he was young etc. I think she and her parents handled it all brilliantly and it seems to have helped her cope.

OP, I think be factual about it.
FIL died suddenly on Friday. Dd is 7 so a little bit older but as many other posters said, they are far more resilient than we give him credit for. DD was very close to her grandad, she was upset. We had a discussion about how grandad had been very poorly. We talked about where he may have gone and how he will live through her. Perhaps not something that a 5yo might understand, but I think she will understand that everyone will be sad, and he will be missed very much.

We have a book called No Matter What. Its lovely.

A lot of you have said about taking her to see him and a lot of the bereavement guides online talk about saying goodbye. I will talk to my partner in the morning about us going Christmas Eve afternoon and she can take her pictures in like suggested and I'll take her somewhere after to answer any questions whilst the family stay.

We haven't had the discussion around the funeral yet. I like the idea of her going to a part for closure so depending on what's decided, I'll leave/go with her

I'm really appreciative of everyone's advice and experience, thank you.

Also- agree with Cindie. Do be prepared (and potentially prepare your partner) for the sudden change in emotions. Dd was upset and cried and then within an hour was quite cheerful. She hasn't forgotten, every now and then she brings it up, and then is cheerful again.

I agree you must just be honest with her, children are probably a lot more resilient than adults. My own DS lost a (young) cousin at a similar age, we told him that his cousin was very ill, they had a ‘last’ visit ( more heart breaking for the adults) and he accepted what happpened.

Honestly don’t overthink it there’s loads of great advice here. My parents dog recently died, my very intelligent 4.5 year old adored this dog and saw it 2-3 times a week since birth (my parents do a significant amount of child care). I was really upset thinking about telling him. When I did I did so in a clear way and do you know what DS said? ‘Oh ok I don’t care that something’s died, they’ve still got a cat’!!!! I was taken aback but I think it’s easy to over estimate how sad things are for them.

Agreeing with PP. I'd also prepare him for the seriously blunt and unsympathetic comments.

"Why are we doing Xs birthday. He's dead." 🤦‍♀️
"Does X still have bones. Because he's dead"

For us it comes when we're all chilling in front of the telly. Completely unprepared.
They don't have tact. It's not being rude. It's not being disrespectful.

NRTFT but wanted to agree with previous posters that preparing her is best. There are lots of places to get support and some of the ones I have used are:
Winston’s Wish
Child Bereavement UK
Elliot’s Footprint

The latter is for families who have lost children but has some very good advice relevant for supporting children who have lost family/friends and not just siblings.

I also feel it’s good for children to see adults grieving as it normalises their own feelings and stops them feeling alone in their grief.
Sending big unmumsnetty hugs.

Please don't take him to see him. Seeing someone who is a shell of themselves is incredibly traumatic, even as an adult I find it hard to think about my father when he was really poorly and I don't want my children to remember him that way.

My own grandfather died of the same illness and I can only remember the hospice and him in the ill state (and also all the other old people dying). I much rather have remembered the person he actually was.

My dad died last year when DD was 2, and people on here recommended a Julia Donaldson book called Paper Dolls. It’s really beautiful and has helped us a lot.

We told DD very matter of factly. She still talks about him and asks (quite existential!) questions about why he died and how can he not be here any more. But I’m really glad she can have these conversations with me.

I agree with PPs saying she should visit him in hospital. DD visited my DF and said he looked like an elephant (he had a big ventilator coming from his nose!). But I think it helped her to understand that something big was happening.

When my DSM and when my DDad were sick and dying we were factual.
eg
They are old and sometimes when you are old things in your body stop working properly. The doctors will try and fix it but sometimes they can’t.

Please don’t use euphemisms like sleeping as it can be confusing and worrying.

Children were welcome at the funeral.

Water bugs and dragonfly’s is a book I’m using with my youngest DS, my eldest DC is terminally ill and he finds this book a source of comfort,

Alternatively, there is a lively teaching resource I use to explain death of old age, it’s called Badger’s parting gifts, it tells the child that although a person dies (in this case old badger) the things they did never die and it helps to remember them.

I’m so sorry you are going through this OP,

I recently bought these books to help when a child in my Year 1 class lost her mum.
We had bereavement training as a staff to help the children, & were advised to be honest. ...no saying mum has gone to sleep....children that age will think the dead person is coming back. They need to be helped to understand they are gone for good. I googled for advice when we knew the mum was poorly too. My pupil has been quite matter of fact. We followed what the family wanted to say about Heaven.
I'm sorry you are going through this, especially so close to Christmas. You sound like a fabulous stepmum.

so sorry this is happening to you. Grandpas island is an excellent book and there is avideo of the author reading it on youtube . its also been one of the Cbeebies bedtime stories so may be availble there. The new mary poppins film deals with it also and there is a song, 'the place where lost things go' which is good. My favourite is the Paper dolls by Julia donaldson which is a lovely book.

And don't say grandads gone to sleep, it might make bedtimes hell. Always used died and dead.

No Matter What is also a good book, & Michael Rosen's Sad.

As a child I experienced loss myself. The one memory that’s stayed with me is that things were hidden from me and I wasn’t included. Phone calls stopped when I entered a room. Adults stopped conversations when I was around. It was very wrong and has bothered me my whole life. Include her. Talk to her. Don’t try to shield her from the normality of death and grieving.

I second Always and Forever. My 6 yo friend who lost her Nanny in the summer also found Goodbye Mog helpful.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.
I second the advice of everyone tell her factually but gently, use the words dead and died, don't shield her from your grief. Death sadly is a fact of life.
I had to tell my then 8 year old son his great grandad had died (thankfully my younger too were too young and my eldest was with the adults) very unexpectedly, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. He actually screamed, fell to the floor and sobbed for days. They were best friends, I actually called my dr in a panic but he said it was totally normal, and that grief should always be acknowledged, accepted and talked through. There is no right or wrong way to react. Some children bounce, then get upset later. others cry then bounce back slowly.
A week later my son was back to his usual self, but wanted to talk about his grandad a lot and we always talk about him even years later he loves seeing photos of them together x the memories are happy ones now.

My grandad died when I was about 10. I saw him in hospital a couple of weeks before and it looked like grandad. When he got very poorly he was all tubed up and I wasnt allowed to go.

I am grateful to my dad for that as the last memories I have of grandad are him in his "best" pyjamas (he wore especially for the visit) looking and sounding like grandad