To be so creeped out by this?

[Gingerninja01]

Fully prepared to be told how neurotic I'm being but just wondering if it's just me or if others would feel as uneasy about this.
Was in Tesco with toddler DD bagging up shopping at the checkout. A few people sitting on the chairs large supermarkets often have near the ends of checkouts for elderly people etc to sit on. Obviously am completely used to random people waving/smiling/commenting on DD as I'm sure most people with young kids are.
There was a middle aged man sitting on aforementioned seats who waved etc at DD, didnt think anything of it until I realised he literally wouldn't take his eyes off her, he had a strange grin on and literally his gaze would not be averted despite me quite obviously staring back at him. I turned DD away from him in the trolley so he could only see her back, but still he continued staring.

Then he gets his phone out while still staring at her. At this point I stopped bagging my shopping and stared at him very pointedly, he put his phone back in his pocket and looked away before resuming his staring. Surely if he was going to use his phone in an innocent capacity to make a call etc he would just do this rather than look shifty and put it away.
Anyway, pay for shopping and hurriedly leave.
As I'm going down the (annoyingly slow) travelator thing, this man gets up and follows. It's at this point I realise he a) has no shopping bags and b) wasnt waiting for anyone as I had presumed and was for some reason just hanging around the checkout staring at DD.
I got DD into the car and started putting the bags into the car as quickly as poss, when creepy man walks past really slowly.
Nothing actually happened, he didnt approach us, but the whole thing made me feel really uncomfortable. Maybe I should have told a security guard at the time but I felt a bit silly saying "someone looked at us". Ever since I've had this feeling of having had a near miss, I just had a feeling about this guy.
Would others feel equally creeped out or am I being crazy?

The store’s security would hopefully begin to see whether this is a pattern of behaviour.

You are not NEUROTIC op. YOU were there. You felt it. I don’t think we can complaisant these days, sadly.
Don’t let ANYONE talk you into thinking you are neurotic.

Look these people would do worse if they could get away with it. But they know there are cameras everywhere, so the best they can do is take a photo to share with their “community” that’s disgust, obviously.

Except that you weren’t there muffle.

He may have a hidden disability.

It’s obviously strange behaviour so you aren’t being unreasonable. It could be he has learning difficulties of some kind and is otherwise harmless but just doesn’t perceive how his actions would come across. Or it could be he is a genuine, serious danger.
I think I would speak to security at TESCO and alert them. They more have more information about him (“oh yes he always comes with his carer, Maggie, we’ll speak to her” kinda thing) or they might look at CCTV to establish if there is a pattern.

YANBU. I have a sensor for people who are dodgy with children. They don;t make proper eye contact with the adults. It happened with DS2 when he was tiny. A young man on public transport with his eyes locked on DS2 trying to get DS's attention. I looke dover and he wouldn;t even glance at me. then I noticed his hands were shoved down his pockets and very active.
So creepy. You did the right thing. FWIW you might want to tell the supermarket staff/security or local community officer that he was hanging out, buying nothing and trying to take photos of your child. I think they'd want to know.

YANBU. What a weirdo. SO creepy. There are tonnes of absolute nutters out there and you simply don't know what they are capable of. Always trust your mummy instincts - if something seems off then it most likely is. Everyone saying it wasn't a near miss but i've heard some horrible things first hand of people eyeing up children, taking photos to sell the info on to bad guys. Don't want to scare you further but maybe that's why he followed you out to your car to get your number plate. Can you trace number plates to an address?

Yanbu. Really creepy. Your instincts are there for a reason.
I met a man like this once who leered at my dd, then 2. He said "sweetheart, you're like a little doll" whilst looking her up and down.
It's horrible when things like that happen.

What liara said.

You have no idea what this man has gone through or is living with now.
He could have had a lovely daughter just like yours.

The phone/following/passing car is irrelevant- don’t we all do this out shopping ?

It’s not really a ‘near miss’ given the public situation and your obvious awareness of him, but YANBU to feel creeped out.

I had a similar experience in a supermarket when DS was about 2 and sitting in the trolley. As I turned to pick up something, I suddenly became aware of an old guy just staring and staring at DS from across the aisle. He was oblivious to me, just fixated on my son. I can’t properly describe it without sounding like a total drama llama, but there was something so dark about the way he looked at him, I knew with 100% certainty that he wanted to harm DS and it absolutely made my skin crawl. I’ve never felt like that about anyone before or since.

As for telling the staff, OP, you probably should mention it to security, but there’s really nothing they can do other than keep an eye out.

My sister reported a middle-aged guy in our local leisure centre. He was using the unisex changing rooms, repeatedly going into a cubicle and waiting in there until the next group of kids finished their swimming class, then coming out and ‘showering’ amongst the children.

She watched him do it three times, then reported to reception. They said, ‘What exactly do you want us to do? He’s just showering’. About 6 months later an 8 yr old girl was assaulted in the changing room - possibly by him, possibly by another opportunistic paedo. The fuckers can operate anywhere in plain sight knowing that they’re very unlikely to be called out on their behaviour, no matter how creepy, until actual harm has been done.

Having had a frightening experience in a supermarket myself (when a man followed me and DDs in quite empty supermarket one evening, kept making contact and waited by the door for us) I think you’re right to have been suspicious of this man and let him know you had your eye on him.
As you rightly say, OP, you’re used to people looking on in a friendly way and acting normally around your DC. You - we - are all used to normal behaviour, and this mans behaviour was not normal. If being suspicious of someone staring constantly at your young child is neurotic then neurotic is a necessary thing to keep them safe.

I have only experienced this kind of creepiness once, in over 30 years of parenting and previously nannying. We were in a toy shop in Covent Garden and there was this older guy who was standing just too close to the DC, almost touching them. When they moved, he shuffled along to stand close to them again. And he was looking at them in a really weird way. It was really strange. He was buying a coloring book and pencils . I felt very uneasy about him and have never forgotten it.

But the most chilling experience I had was in San Diego Zoo. We were looking though the glass at a lion or something, with DS who was 4 years old at the time. This lady started talking to us, she was middle aged and seemed quite kind and normal. I felt no creepy vibe at all. She took a picture of DS and asked him what his name was, etc which I thought was quite innocent if a bit intrusive. However, about 5 mins later we overheard her on her phone. She was saying. “His name is [DS’s name]... yes he’s 4 years old...” and other information about our DS. I have no idea what that was all about, but it scared me shirtless.

I am quite vigilant now.

Have you read The Gift of Fear, OP? It's an excellent book about listening to your gut when it sends you a warning. This guy tripped your alarm system, and you are right to be cautious about him.

And to all the posters keen to minimise/justify/explain why this guy is harmless - it's really interesting and common that people want to do that.

"What about if she reminded him of his dead daughter?" (doesn't explain why he is staring at her in an unsettling way - humans are pretty good at reading emotions from faces and the OP didn't get "sad" or "grief-stricken" from his expression. She got "danger".)

"Maybe his phone buzzed with a message?" (So why did he put it away when the OP stared at him? Why not answer it like a normal person?).

It's precisely this urge to explain away danger signals that allows actual predators around us to operate for so long unchallenged and unreported - everyone is so eager to use their brain to find explanations that aren't the obvious that they only see the true danger until it is too late.

In a sense, OP, I can see why you feel like you had a 'near miss' - it's not so much that anything could have happened to your DD, it's that a few yards away from her was someone who you felt posed a strong threat, and that is very unsettling.

I agree with JesusMaryAndJoseph on page one. When my dc were smaller there was one local man who could not take his eyes off them, and would do anything he could to get close or touch them. We live in a small community and he worked in the cafe, so we saw him often and It was dressed up as friendly and playful but it gave me the creeps. I was worried I was being unfair, then DH said he gave him the creeps too. He had hungry eyes when he looked at children. There were a few incidents that made me extremely uncomfortable and I had to talk to my dc about it in the end- I talked to them about danger not always being strangers, how someone might seem like a friend to them but be someone we don’t know well at all, and gave examples of my much trusted and loved close friends, and then examples of people we say hello to, but we aren’t close to. I told them I did not trust this man and never to go anywhere with him.
Trust your gut feelings.
I also used to work somewhere years ago, the Children’s section of a major attraction . There was a regular visitor, a man, who would come alone, and stand around staring and the children, he would take photographs and of course it could have been innocent, it was a touristy place where lots of people took pictures, but all the staff were aware of him and one would always shadow him carefully, as they all felt there was something about the way he looked at the children that wasn’t right.

I have had all sorts of lovely people fuss my dds, i have not had the creeping feeling before or since that the local man or the other man I mentioned gave me.
Read “The Gift of Fear” it is very good on this.

Sounds like you totally misread the whole situation!

Er, were you there Muffle?

“Your stupid guess is as good as mine” - no it bloody isn’t; you didn’t even see this man’s behaviour.

I’m sure OP has had adequate experience of other people to see when someone looks like they’re behaving unusually. She didn’t report this man or say in her post that he definitely was up to no good, just that she was creeped out because it’s possible he may have been.
I think lots of us would have been.

I see i cross posted re the Gift of Fear.

He's middle aged, for some reason I kept thinking he was 70s/80s. Very worryingly creepy that he got up and followed you. I'd have been paranoid he was still following behind in his own car, and watching out for him! Always trust your instincts- sometimes you just know.

Also I know what you mean about "near miss" you feel like you got away/escaped, or something put him off, and it's a very unsettling feeling.

I worked in a secure psych unit. Pedophiles and the sort. They get day release and Ive had to terminate outings for this kind of behaviour before. It could've been innocent but after that job I'll never be so naive around 'kindly old gentlemen' who excessively stare at or "follow"/tail kids

Yanbu to feel so uncomfortable by this man and he also seemed to enjoy your discomfort

You are shaken she will now feel you had a near miss your mind is on overdrive to be ready to protect your child and yourself in a few days time you probably won’t be feeling quite so frightened by this incident (thats not to take away how uncomfortable it was)

It’s incredible how our mind works to keep ourselves and our children safe

Dirty nonce.

You'll get the usual cries of "don't be silly! There are no paedophiles anywhere" but it's simply not true. They are all around.

I should add that I also tried to explain away creepy man’s behaviour... as did others who knew him slightly, as “lonely”, “not reading social cues well” “trying to be friendly” etc.
There was an incident with my smallest dd that made me certain I was not wrong, I read the Gift of Fear and felt annoyed with myself for having tried to talk myself out of the feelings of revulsion I had about this man. He had literally made me feel sick, but I had thought that was unkind and I should give him the benefit of the doubt etc.

Do you meaning he was leering at her?