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Original poster

What can friend do about her baby's father?

52 replies

armnai · 16/12/2019 22:48

Am posting this with friend's permission. Her 8 month old son's father is from a European (non-EU) country and while he lives there, he has been back and forth to see baby a few times since birth. During visits he has stayed at a relatives house in our town. Baby has a passport though that was nothing to do with his father, friend went on holiday with her mum in August and that's why he has one. The baby's father has recently got quite forceful about contact and soon expects to be able to take the baby to see his family in his country for a period of time. Friend doesn't want that yet as baby is still very young and breastfeeding, and more importantly she does not trust him to bring him back.

Friend has recently found out he is coming over with his parents and older child in a few weeks to see the baby. Friend has faced online harassment from his mother (who speaks very little English, this is relevant because friend cannot communicate or reason with her) who keeps taking photos of the baby from her Facebook and posting them on her own account with captions that imply she is looking after the baby (or at least that's how Google translate reads it). Friend is terrified they are going to do a runner with her baby and take him abroad, she has someone else minding the passport so there is absolutely no chance they can get hold of it. The thing is he hasn't actually done anything wrong yet or made threats so she doesn't have much of a basis to go to authorities, though she is looking into speaking to someone.
The father also wants to get the baby official citizenship in his country (this is legally allowed, baby is considered a citizen as he has one parent who is a citizen).

Friend is worried about what to do when they all come over, he is on the birth certificate, pays child support and there aren't actually any safeguarding issues (friend is confident baby is not in any danger of abuse or neglect when with the father) so there is also no basis to not let them see the baby, but she is very uneasy about them taking him. Also if the father wishes can he seek legal grounds to take the baby out of the country for a certain amount of time? Friend has been doing lots of reading up and I've been trying to help but it's all very very confusing and seems to be situation dependant, and it's made more complicated by the fact there are 2 nationalities involved and citizenship etc.

OP posts:
Stressedout10 · 16/12/2019 22:58

Tell her to get a residency order.
Block the mil on everything.
And speak to a emigration lawyer about preventing duel citizenship until dc is 18

SympatheticSwan · 16/12/2019 22:59

The rules are the same for citizens / non-citizens. Your friend would be wise to arrange some mediation with the father and agree a court order as to the child's residence with her.
The issue with Non EU country is that even if it can technically be under the Hague convention, in practice it is very different to trace the other parent should they choose to take the child to live with them there (abduct, in simple terms). Especially if it is one of the ex-USSR countries.

Original poster
armnai · 16/12/2019 23:03

@SympatheticSwan It is an ex-USSR which is a reason why friend is so worried and doesn't want him to go/be taken. There are cases of children being abducted by their father to the country and the police in the country not cooperating with EU authorities trying to locate the child. Friend also has no idea which area father is in.

OP posts:
FlapAttack23 · 16/12/2019 23:05

Tell friend to get legal advice
Courts wouldn’t support allowing baby out of country at this age or for many many years if that
Unless he gets a court order it’s between them to arrange access and she can allow what she feels is in best interest of baby as she is the resident parent therefore acting as main caregiver . and that wouldn’t be it being taken away from her overseas
Him visiting with supervised contact seems more appropriate. No passports to be given
She does not have to agree to anything like that , that’s outrageous
Make sure she doesn’t let him take baby ur if country or have passport

SympatheticSwan · 16/12/2019 23:10

@armnai
What she can do is:

  1. Secure a child residence order through the family court. If the father is in agreement, it can literally take two hourly sessions with a family mediator, they are experienced at drafting documents like this and will manage all paperwork. If needed, she may exaggerate the need for this order for some reason (medical / future school/ whatever).
  2. Raise a port alert with the police. The baby will be stopped if the father attempts to cross the UK border with him. The father will not be informed otherwise. I am from an ex USSR country myself and, unfortunately, it is indeed quite difficult to return a child from there once they crossed the border.
ViaSacra · 16/12/2019 23:20

Your friend shouldn’t allow him unsupervised contact. That’s a recipe for disaster.

SympatheticSwan · 16/12/2019 23:21

What is the country? For some of them I can check for you whether they allow their passport to be issued without the non-national parent's permission. Russia certainly does and so does Ukraine, I think.

Verily1 · 16/12/2019 23:29

Block them all on social media.

Stop all contact and if he wants contact he can go to court for it.

She needs a residence order ASAP.

In the meantime she shouldn’t leave the baby with anyone else As he could call the police and assert his PRR and take the baby at any time. She’s then not get contact until a court decided to grant it.

IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 23:43

Ask her to contact Reunite.org, they have a lot of advice to prevent a parent taking a child abroad without permission.

She needs to apply for a residence order as a matter of urgency, if no order or court process is in place before he takes the child abroad, he can leave baby there and there’s absolutely NOTHING your friend can do to retrieve him. With an order in place, Things are far simpler.

IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 23:45

Ps. She should not allow the parent to take the kid out unsupervised until a court process is in place.

Original poster
armnai · 17/12/2019 00:45

Friend doesn't want to allow unsupervised contact but had read this can backfire and the father can state that she is being unreasonable about contact because there is no history of safeguarding issues with him. She still has a few weeks before they come to think up a plan, providing they don't show up earlier which is always possible. She does not want things to kick off with him for obvious reasons. It's fear of not knowing whether the father will take court action if things kick off or will just attempt to take the baby.

It is Ukraine. I think she is already trying to get a residency order sorted. It is such a messy situation.

OP posts:
Purpleartichoke · 17/12/2019 00:51

She needs legal advice. The best she can find.

A baby that age doesn’t need overnights with someone they don’t really know. Ideally she should have legal representation in place before his next visit and follow the advice of who she hires. Barring that, I would probably offer a series of short visits with absolutely no overnights.

Purpleartichoke · 17/12/2019 00:52

He also can’t just show up and expect her to drop everything. He should provide concrete dates and times. If he doesn’t, she doesn’t really have to do anything to accommodate him. She is allowed to have plans.

PixieDustt · 17/12/2019 00:59

There is no way he can force her into unsupervised visits.
If she is worried the baby will be taken then under no circumstances should that child be left without the mother.
She should also not allow them into her house.

Lifecanonlygetbetter · 17/12/2019 01:06

She can apply to the family court for an urgent prohibited steps order which means that he cannot remove the child from her care. There can be exceptions to this eg cannot remove child from her care except for contact and must return when contact has ended. There is no such thing as a ‘residency order’. She could also apply for a child arrangements order, at the same time, for the child to live with her and spent time with the father.

Original poster
armnai · 17/12/2019 02:24

Thank you everybody who has given advice, I've screenshotted and sent to my friend.

OP posts:
Isithometimeyet0987 · 17/12/2019 02:41

My uncle had a similar problem 4/5 years ago he is the main carer for his 10yo dd and her mother was threatening to run away to Russia (her home country) with the child. He got social services involved (although he had prove she threatened to hurt the child - recorded her threats) and went to the police and got some sort of block on his dd leaving the county if the dd was caught going through airport security, security where instantly alerted she wasn’t allowed to leave the country and alerted the police, he still has it in place now as every so often the mother still makes these claims she’ll disappear with his dd, also it doesn’t stop Jim’s going on holiday with dd he just needs to make sure he has all the correct paperwork with him. Also he never allowed unsupervised visits (he had to tell the school only named people could pick up his dd- also this is still in place). She needs to apply for a residency order ASAP. If she can get any proof he might be thinking of taking her dc and not returning them, keep all messages between herself and him showing she hasn’t stop visitation she just won’t alllow unsupervised (the fact she’s bf should be a good way of explaining it to the dc father without causing an argument). But definitely tell her to get onto ss ASAP as they really helped my uncle who was in a similar situation.

DoTheHop · 17/12/2019 02:48

It's easy to get a fake passport for the baby. Just saying.

DoTheHop · 17/12/2019 02:51

Does 'Dad' have his name on the birthcert?

I'd refuse all contact and when it came to court cite fear of him fleeing with the baby as grounds.

DoTheHop · 17/12/2019 02:52

Is this the first grandson by any chance?

wakemewhenitsallover · 17/12/2019 03:53

Breastfeeding is in your favour. Courts won't agree to BF babies to be taken from their mother for long. And your friend can use this as an excuse for not handing the baby over.

NearlyGranny · 17/12/2019 04:02

She must not let baby out of her sight. That's the only way to be sure. Where baby goes, she goes and vice versa. A baby wearing wrap could be a good investment.

It's all very well saying they can't legally take the baby, but if they do it illegally it will be horrendously difficult to impossible getting them back!

Another adult around for extra eyes and hands will be reassuring, too. Friend between baby and door whenever mum is in the loo or baby is in other hands. Openly taken photos of car licence plates and family members when they turn up may deter kidnap attempts. A bf baby cannot be away from their DM.

kateandme · 17/12/2019 04:34

i know it could be innocent.and im more than willing to believe hes just a loving dad.but from what you said in your post i got chills and flag flashed all over the place.
so tell her no caution do waht she cn to keep the little one safe.
if its all innocent then there will be no problems going forward working togethe rin the future.but until then keep the dc safe and with mum!

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted · 17/12/2019 04:57

What on earth was your friend thinking having a baby in this situation??

He's the father and therefore entitled to time with the child when it's a bit older

mathanxiety · 17/12/2019 05:15

She needs to stop worrying about the reaction of the father and his family and take steps to safeguard the child before he gets himself a solicitor.

Find a solicitor TOMORROW.
I agree with Lifecanonlygetbetter's advice.

Also, she needs to block all the Ukrainian family and friends on FB.