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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

What can friend do about her baby's father?

52 replies

armnai · 16/12/2019 22:48

Am posting this with friend's permission. Her 8 month old son's father is from a European (non-EU) country and while he lives there, he has been back and forth to see baby a few times since birth. During visits he has stayed at a relatives house in our town. Baby has a passport though that was nothing to do with his father, friend went on holiday with her mum in August and that's why he has one. The baby's father has recently got quite forceful about contact and soon expects to be able to take the baby to see his family in his country for a period of time. Friend doesn't want that yet as baby is still very young and breastfeeding, and more importantly she does not trust him to bring him back.

Friend has recently found out he is coming over with his parents and older child in a few weeks to see the baby. Friend has faced online harassment from his mother (who speaks very little English, this is relevant because friend cannot communicate or reason with her) who keeps taking photos of the baby from her Facebook and posting them on her own account with captions that imply she is looking after the baby (or at least that's how Google translate reads it). Friend is terrified they are going to do a runner with her baby and take him abroad, she has someone else minding the passport so there is absolutely no chance they can get hold of it. The thing is he hasn't actually done anything wrong yet or made threats so she doesn't have much of a basis to go to authorities, though she is looking into speaking to someone.
The father also wants to get the baby official citizenship in his country (this is legally allowed, baby is considered a citizen as he has one parent who is a citizen).

Friend is worried about what to do when they all come over, he is on the birth certificate, pays child support and there aren't actually any safeguarding issues (friend is confident baby is not in any danger of abuse or neglect when with the father) so there is also no basis to not let them see the baby, but she is very uneasy about them taking him. Also if the father wishes can he seek legal grounds to take the baby out of the country for a certain amount of time? Friend has been doing lots of reading up and I've been trying to help but it's all very very confusing and seems to be situation dependant, and it's made more complicated by the fact there are 2 nationalities involved and citizenship etc.

OP posts:

Frenchw1fe · 17/12/2019 06:15

@itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted
That was helpful!

Chattybum · 17/12/2019 06:21

@Frenchw1fe no it's not helpful but I was thinking it too. What a nightmare situation! She's damned either way. If she refuses contact the baby will be denied a dad, if she allows it she will live on tenter hooks everytime the baby is with his dad.
I guess don't have babies with strangers and then put their name on birth certificates is the takeaway lesson here. Good luck to your friend, she needs to speak to a solicitor to put as many legal hurdles up as she can, but they are in no way bombproof if that man and his family really want to take the baby with them.

Sotiredofthislife · 17/12/2019 06:28

What on earth was your friend thinking having a baby in this situation??

How about turning that around and blaming the person at fault here - the father (and his family) - for their abuse of the mother and for behaving in a way that causes her to fear the non-return of her child? The mother is behaving properly , allowing access and recognising that the father is capable of parenting appropriately.

OP - she needs to block the lot of them on all social media.

LIZS · 17/12/2019 06:32

Was he named on birth certificate, does the baby only have a UK passport?

SympatheticSwan · 17/12/2019 06:40

OP - I pm'd you. This is also quite identifying, you might want to ask to take it down.

Chattybum · 17/12/2019 06:46

They are not to blame at all! They haven't actually done anything wrong or suggested they might. The mother is rightly paranoid because it has just dawned on her that she knows naff all about the man she reproduced with, or his family! She doesn't even have an address! Just madness.

itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted · 17/12/2019 06:47

@Sotiredofthislife

In the OPs words
*
The thing is he hasn't actually done anything wrong yet or made threats so she doesn't have much of a basis to go to authorities*

She's been foolish and selfish and thought of herself only bringing a child into this mess. She can't deny access to the father because he lives abroad. Should have thought of that before

Dontdisturbmenow · 17/12/2019 07:06

This is a difficult situation. Baby has two parents involved in their life. They are entitled to get to know both their family and culture. It is extremely selfish to consider that this should be denied of them because of fear of kidnapping. The focus shouldn't be on preventing their father and family to be given a chance to properly bond with the child, the priority should be to build a stronger relationship with the father, to get to know him, his family, so that she feels more confident that indeed, he won't kidnap the child because he would have no reasons to do so.

They need to talk and agree compromises. If they can't manage it without court (which ideally they should try), then go to court. The end result though should be to agree on a schedule by which the child has a chance to develop a proper relationship with their dad and that won't be by allowing him a couple of hours supervised contact with OP, every few months. It will need to be more than that and starting this now is totally reasonable.

It's a chicken and egg situation. The more OP's friend make it difficult for him to build a bond with his child and allow his family to be involved, the more likely he'll be to consider kidnapping, if this is even a consideration in his mind.

For the sake of the child, who was created by two people and has two parents, they both need to make an effort to communicate and compromise. Anything else is just selfish.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 17/12/2019 07:07

And if she has screenshot any of the Grandmothers online messages , have them properly translated , Not just Google
There might be important information there .

Sotiredofthislife · 17/12/2019 07:12

She's been foolish and selfish and thought of herself only bringing a child into this mess

FFS. And the father hasn’t been foolish and selfish? Just the mother? Father could make choices like remain in the UK and demand his mother remove wrongly captioned pictures from her social media? He also chose to have a child with a foreign person and needs to accept that there will be concerns and issues that they need to work through so everyone feels safe and secure. But hey ho, just the mother who is in the wrong, eh?

You couldn’t make such shit up, could you?

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 17/12/2019 07:24

In all honestly, if she doesnt have a great relationship with the fathers family why should she give two hoots about pissing them off? Id be minded to not let the baby leave her sight, and make the contact somwhere public and make up an excuse. So what if she annoys them?

She needs to be firm and say no to the unsupervised visit abroad. No way would I let someone take my BF child abroad when all they've done is see them a couple of times since birth. If it all got nasty after that id then use it as ammunition for social services involvement. With any luck the fathers mother might drop herself in it with all her threats.

FAQs · 17/12/2019 07:26

@sotired absolutely, many always default to blame the mother even though no personal information leading to the situation is disclosed.

SympatheticSwan · 17/12/2019 07:27

Father could make choices like remain in the UK and demand his mother remove wrongly captioned pictures from her social media
If he does not have a British passport, he can remain in the UK as a father of a British child, but only if he has sole or majority of care. Which can be achieved by, you know, by taking baby away for a year and then he is automatically the sole carer. It is not an uncommon situation, but, of course, more common with foreign national mothers. Return under the Hague convention can take years, and there is very little means of enforcement apart from semi-criminal through "child return agencies".

Snowmonster · 17/12/2019 07:28

Does the father have PR? If so friend should go to a solicitor and initiate an urgent Prohibited Steps Order - residency application can go on in the background, this takes time. Do the PSO now!

leckford · 17/12/2019 07:32

The stark reality of having children with such people. She should get off Facebook for a start

Snowmonster · 17/12/2019 07:48

Either parent can apply for a passport for their child (if they have PR), unless an objection has been lodged at a United Kingdom Identity and Passport Service office (e.g through a PSO) Your friend needs to get a PSO asap as father could tell passport office the current one is lost, and apply for a replacement to be sent to him. She would be none the wiser.

Pinkyyy · 17/12/2019 07:50

Some of these comments are really uncalled for. None of you know the circumstances of the conception of this baby and I think you need to keep your nastiness to yourself.

ViaSacra · 17/12/2019 09:22

Friend doesn't want to allow unsupervised contact but had read this can backfire and the father can state that she is being unreasonable about contact because there is no history of safeguarding issues with him

In a situation like this one, given her fear of the child being taken out of the country, she would not be seen as being unreasonable only to allow supervised access.

ArnoldBee · 17/12/2019 09:32

Your friend does need the messages properly translated as there are things that are missed through google translate. It may not even be what she thinks she is saying at all.

BemidjiMinnesota · 17/12/2019 09:44

How is the grandma accessing your friend's Facebook to get pictures of the baby? She needs to block them all on social media.

The father might have a Ukrainian passport for the baby that he can use to take the baby out of the country, so your friend can't rely on hiding his UK passport. As previous posters have said, she needs legal advice.

Lifecanonlygetbetter · 17/12/2019 09:53

‘Does the father have PR? If so friend should go to a solicitor and initiate an urgent Prohibited Steps Order - residency application can go on in the background, this takes time. Do the PSO now!’ This is incorrect, application for a PSO and a child arrangements order ( not ‘residency’)should be made at the same time on the same form. Otherwise you have to pay for two applications.

PersephoneandHades · 17/12/2019 09:55

She needs to get a lawyer and sort out custody.

Sotiredofthislife · 17/12/2019 13:53

The stark reality of having children with such people

Such people? Foreigners? People not like us?

Really?

Marinetta · 17/12/2019 14:01

You might want to advise your friend not to let the father or his family to be alone with the baby in case they do decide to do a runner with him. It's possible that they have already been able to obtain a second passport for the baby from the father's home country. My son is also 8 months old and has 2 passports, I was able to get the one from my country of origin without any permission/paperwork from the father and would have eaily been able to keep it a secret. If my home country would do it without both parents knowledge I'm sure the former soviet countries are willing to do it too.

QueenOfTheFae · 17/12/2019 14:02

I wouldn't allow unsupervised access, as just because you have the real passport, doesn't mean he couldnt use a other babies passport

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