To ask you to join the Labour Party?

[tilder]

We really need a strong opposition. Personally, I really really don't a Corbyn clone or McDonnell lite. I would love there to be a political party I want to vote for. Instead of a 'least worst option'.

I will be joining and reading up on possible candidates. Then hoping my vote might count for something. Anyone else?

Personally I have trouble taking the whole trans thing seriously, given the other political issues currently at stake.

It can be pretty serious if it affects you.

@Direduldrums - he is the only nearly leader that I ever felt I could listen to. I am never adverse to listening to other views and hearing others opinions. I would rather someone I felt was honest and credible was leading a party who could govern the country at some point.

Also, it is possible to support left wing policies but not support Corbyn. Many people feel that way (am hoping enough!).

“The miniscule chance of them winning any sizeable majority unless we overturn FPTP? The fact that they've said they don't want the vote of anyone who questions the trans ideology in any way, shape or form? What they did (or failed to do) the last time they were in government?”

Well they can’t win if not enough people vote for them, no...

And labour also want to change the GRA, so...

It doesn’t make any sense at all to join a left leaning party to try and make it shift into the centre and change some of its policies on certain issues when you could join a party that’s already in the centre and change it’s policies on those issues.

Well they can’t win if not enough people vote for them, no...

It's more complex than that. FPTP is quote effective at keeping the smaller parties out. With proportional representation they'd have more of a shot (which is why Tories and Labour don't want it).

And labour also want to change the GRA, so...

Yes, but they've not actively told people who disagree not to vote for them.

*quite effective not quote effective FFS

I am not looking to shift the position of the party tabulahrasa. Would be need to be a lot more involved for that sort of thing.

I want a strong opposition. I think a big majority government with a weak opposition is bad for democracy and bad for the country. Everyone should be held to account, especially those in power.

YABU

“FPTP is quote effective at keeping the smaller parties out. With proportional representation they'd have more of a shot (which is why Tories and Labour don't want it).”

FPTP is a ridiculous system, but if enough people voted Lib Dem, they’d still get in.

YABVU

“I am not looking to shift the position of the party”

So what do you want then? Because naming people regarded as being pretty far left and saying not someone like them kind of suggests you do want it to move to the centre?

I’ve not got an axe to grind btw, I’m just generally fairly bemused that the reaction to labour losing seems to be that it needs to move into the centre when it is a left wing party and there is already a centrist party.

I have joined and will be voting for the most most credible non-Corbynite candidate.

Because a strong opposition needs someone credible tabulahrasa.

Yes, I realise lib dems are centrist. I didn't say I want centrist. Plus given the way the numbers stack up, Lib dems cannot provide opposition whereas labour can.

FPTP is a ridiculous system, but if enough people voted Lib Dem, they’d still get in.

Depends on the constituencies they were in. They could have thirty percent of the vote share nationally but still get few, or no, MPs.

Like minds recrudescence.

Lib dems cannot provide opposition whereas labour can.

Don't they also have form for abstaining from important votes? I'm not at all convinced they'd be capable of providing an opposition even if they did manage to get the numbers.

“Depends on the constituencies they were in. They could have thirty percent of the vote share nationally but still get few, or no, MPs.”

I understand how FPTP works and why it’s not good for smaller parties.

What I’m pointing out is that smaller parties are smaller parties because they don’t win constituencies, they don’t win constituencies because people don’t vote for them...

Smaller parties don’t have to stay smaller parties, it’s not because people can’t vote for them...

They could, they choose not to.

I thought about it but I just don’t want to give them my money just to help them vote in a more moderate leader, they know what they need to do, the public have told them loud and clear.

It can be pretty serious if it affects you. Sure. I didn't mean to sound horrible about people affected by trans issues. It's just that there's so much crap being thrown at us all at once, and limited mental bandwidth to process it all.

I've joined.

Labour has far more chance of winning than the Lib Dems.

And yes - I do hope they move away from policies that will not get them elected.

What's the point in having policies that aren't popular enough to get elected? You can't change anything in opposition.

If you are in power, then you can gradually shift the country in the way you would hope.

Smaller parties don’t have to stay smaller parties, it’s not because people can’t vote for them...

They could, they choose not to.

Yes, and if we shared the world's food equitably no one would starve. Realistically though, it's not going to happen.

YANBU OP- I joined the Labour Party at the weekend exactly so that I can vote for whoever the next leader will be and hopefully next time there will be some decent opposition

why do you want to change the Labour party to being a centrist party when you could back the Lib Dems?

The Lib Dems structure is such that they are stuck with a student-politics approach to everything. The whole party is like the worst of momentum.

I will be son definitely YANBU.

Fuck off

Never in a million years