Should I report DS's landlord to the council?

[Cherryma]

DS lives in Brighton which has some of the strictest housing regulations in the country. Currently he's a lodger with a live-in landlord (I know that lodgers have fewer rights than tenants). There are 2 other lodgers in the property. He's moving out next week (staying in Brighton).

In Brighton, you are allowed to have 2 lodgers without a licence, any more than that and it's classed as a house of multiple occupation if the lodgers aren't related to each other, which requires a licence and planning permission (I know the landlord has neither of these). HMOs have certain regulations which I know are not being followed.

HMO residents should be allowed to individually control the heating in their bedrooms which they can't do. There should be internal thumb turn locks on the front and back doors to escape the property without using a key, in the event of fire. There are just normal locks which require keys. There is no fire blanket in the kitchen when there should be. A gas safety inspection should be carried out every year and a copy of the certificate given to the residents. They have never had this.

He live in area in Brighton with lots of HMOs, I have read online that licences have been refused in his area as local residents and the council have agreed there are too many. The landlord probably hasn't applied for one as they know it would be rejected. The landlord could be fined £20,000 by the council, additionally paying back the lodgers 12 months' rent and have the property being banned from running as an HMO indefinitely. Should I report them? I live in Brighton too so it would be easy to help him with the report.

@Ellisandra, I think it is you who needs to RTFT. There are plenty of people on this thread who seem to think it's somehow immoral to report the landlord for blatant lawbreaking and putting his tenants in danger. And patchworkpatty's conversation with her colleague is helpful in terms of clarifying that the council won't care that the tenant didn't report it earlier, given that some are suggesting that this will affect their approach to the case.

Why not ask your housing enforcement colleague “why do you include a potential penalty of returning rent?”

Answer: because the law says so.

And why does the law say so?

Because it is obviously recognised that people like the OP need the personal financial incentive, or they won’t be bothered enough by safety issues to report.

@Motherofone: the students accepted that the flat was clean and comfortable, but the point was that because the landlord hadn't complied with HMO obligations it wasn't safe. You feel that it's parasitical to claim the compensation that tenants in this situation are entitled to by law, but not parasitical to take rent knowing that, as a landlord, you are operating illegally and dangerously? Really?

Equanimitas

The students had no complaints or interest /intention of pursuing a claim until the HMO licence issue came up and then they opportunistically went for all they could get.
One of them was quoted as saying: “I’d be lying if I said the money wasn’t a motivating factor but we all share similar political beliefs and don’t think housing should be commodified.”
They weren't concerned about safety - just a purely political, financial motivation.

The landlord wasn't even wilfully negligent, but personal circumstances meant he had applied for the licence halfway through the tenancy. Leeds City Council noticed that the property had not been licensed previously — alerting him and his tenants.
He wasn't a 'rogue' landlord with dodgy properties, he was just a bit behind with his admin.

Sadly we have become a society obsessed with entitlement and compensation (even in the event or little of no 'loss' ).

Report the landlord
name and shame

Landlording is THE quintessential parasitic occupation

Landlording is THE quintessential parasitic occupation
What a ridiculous statement!
Where would all the students and everyone else who isn't a home owner live?

Indeed where would all these people live without the parasitic landlords willing to exploit them??

Money money money ! Totally disgusting behaviour from you and your son

As a LL ( don't live with tenants)

Not all LLs are bad !

I adhere to the safety rules
Allowed no deposit, pets
Fixed issues on time
Charge a lower rate of rent
Pay taxes

I've rented myself, so I'm aware of issues

Here comes the Evil Bastard Landlord narrative again... the media brainwashing has been effective .

When my son left home and starting renting, one of the first things I explained to him was how to raise issues as they arose in a firm, non-confrontational manner and then, only then, progressively escalate them if issues weren't resolved satisfactorily. He had plenty of issues with his student house but thankfully didn't need to report any to the council. It's a useful skill the OP should tecah her son, rather than encouraging him towards the blame culture that seems so prevalent these days.

The OP reminds me of the sort of person that goes to a restaurant, happily eats a three course meal then when they get the bill complains about cold soup, rare steak and the wrong pudding and demands their money back.

“PatchworkPatty“ please read my comment again . I said that the OP is a CF NOT the LL.

Oops posted too soon... the OP was more than happy to let her son live in dangerous conditions and now she wants to report the LL, now that her son has left, so that her son can be better off financially. Yes the LL should have been reported but much earlier.

None of them had a special key for the doors

Same here. When the HMO rules came in I was sharing a flat with two other women. It was a large three bedroomed flat that could easily have housed a family of four or five, but as we were three unrelated people, it was an HMO and the landlord was faced with having to replace doors, fit numerous alarms, add signage etc. He decided against it and we were all kicked out.

None of it would have made us any safer.

a vulnerable person needing the cheap rent

Absolutely nothing suggests OP's son is vulnerable.

he'd have nowhere to live

When the rest of us can't afford to live somewhere, we live somewhere else. What makes him so different?

The landlord wasn't even wilfully negligent, but personal circumstances meant he had applied for the licence halfway through the tenancy

So he acted illegally, MotherofOne. He didn't accidentally enter into tenancies and keep them going. If you choose to take that risk as a landlord, you have to accept the consequences.

If you choose to take that risk as a landlord, you have to accept the consequences
And that's ok. The fine can go to the council to fund resources to pick up rogue landlords.

The Landlord acting illegally doesn't mean that the money should go to the tenant when they have suffered no damage, certainly not to the full amount of the rent when they have chosen to stay there and enjoy what rent is expected to cover.

No-one has justified the LL. No-one has criticised the Op’s Son if had chosen to report the LL.

What people don’t like is that the Op is in this to get money. It sounds like she has planned the whole thing and delayed the complaint to a handy time when DS is leaving with the only intention to make money - oh and possibly to attack the LL - not because of the safety issues, but because he is fair game and she is adept at finding money making ventures to avoid paying her way.

People generally support the law but don’t like those who exploit the enforcement of the law for purely personal financial gain. So traffic wardens might hide and watch someone park illegally and run into a shop, to return 2 minutes later. No one condones the illegal parking, but the actions of the traffic warden if they carry out this behaviour to meet targets and get bonuses are unsavoury.

The ops motives here are unsavoury. And what is unfortunate is some people start to feel sorry for the LL because of it. The LL is in the wrong but there is a right time and process to complain and when that is deliberately ignored so that personal gain can be made, instead of the issue being addressed it makes people feel cross.

If Op were asked if she could choose 1 of 2 outcomes from a complaint:

• LL shut down and she doesn’t receive a penny
• LL gets ticking off and DS gets refund of rent money

I think we all know which she would choose. She’s not a zealot for LLs sticking to their legal obligations, she’s a chancer looking for a way to cash-in before probably doing it again.

And yes, of course if the LL had been squeaky clean she wouldn’t have this opportunity, but no doubt she would be looking for another opportunity.

We all say the LL is wrong and we all say the Op is wrong in her motives. No -one likes a bad LL and they do need holding to account. No -one likes a greedy opportunist and they deserve the dislike of MN.

We’d all be glad to hear the LL has been dealt with by the council and Op and son don’t get a penny. That would seem to be justice.

Exactly wombat.

Quite right Wombat.

And that's ok. The fine can go to the council to fund resources to pick up rogue landlords.

Except that that isn't what the law provides for. I don't know why so many people struggle to understand this.

It's not as if it's difficult for landlords to avoid having to repay rent: all they have to do is to comply with their legal obligations.

@Equanimitas you’re spectacularly missing the point. Read @WombatChocolates post, no one is saying the LL should have let the room or isn’t at fault. They are pointing out that the op is scandalous and appears to have planned this in order to take this LL for everything she could!

...our biggest motivation isn't the money, it's the safety. Bollocks.

I completely agree that the LL should be reported but you are being decidedly duplicitous.

If it’s really true that this was the only place in the whole of Brighton that he could afford to rent, you weren’t in a position to provide any practical or financial assistance to help him rent somewhere else and he feared that raising these issues would cause his eviction and it was either sleep here or be homeless, then did either of you buy a fire extinguisher/blanket/rope ladder & hammer to keep in his bedroom? Did either of you buy a C02 detector to alert him to noxious gases coming from the unserviced boiler?

Or was it just when you found out about the 6k that you realised how dangerous it had been for him?

He's leaving.
Mind your own business.
It's your adult sons business. 🙄