Should I report DS's landlord to the council?

[Cherryma]

DS lives in Brighton which has some of the strictest housing regulations in the country. Currently he's a lodger with a live-in landlord (I know that lodgers have fewer rights than tenants). There are 2 other lodgers in the property. He's moving out next week (staying in Brighton).

In Brighton, you are allowed to have 2 lodgers without a licence, any more than that and it's classed as a house of multiple occupation if the lodgers aren't related to each other, which requires a licence and planning permission (I know the landlord has neither of these). HMOs have certain regulations which I know are not being followed.

HMO residents should be allowed to individually control the heating in their bedrooms which they can't do. There should be internal thumb turn locks on the front and back doors to escape the property without using a key, in the event of fire. There are just normal locks which require keys. There is no fire blanket in the kitchen when there should be. A gas safety inspection should be carried out every year and a copy of the certificate given to the residents. They have never had this.

He live in area in Brighton with lots of HMOs, I have read online that licences have been refused in his area as local residents and the council have agreed there are too many. The landlord probably hasn't applied for one as they know it would be rejected. The landlord could be fined £20,000 by the council, additionally paying back the lodgers 12 months' rent and have the property being banned from running as an HMO indefinitely. Should I report them? I live in Brighton too so it would be easy to help him with the report.

Hold on, so you’re ds has been living there and now that he’s leaving you want to report the landlord and would like to get rent back? Why?&

Because that's what the law provides for. Presumably the idea is that landlords need to have a realistic incentive/deterrent in order to ensure that their tenants are safe, and if that is what the law requires I can't see that there's anything whatsoever wrong about enforcing it.

OK so the landlord breaking the rules was absolutely fine while it suited your ds as somewhere to live, but now he's found somewhere else to live you only now decide to report?

Yes he should be reported, but I really questions your motives. You should have done it as soon as you knew instead of turning a blind eye when it suited you. Why get self righteous and report now, what really has changed?

When you don't have much money your choices are very limited.

So screw the person who was going to move into your ds' room, who also doesn't have any money and therefore limited choices.

The landlord lives there, and frankly WHO has the following in their home?
-individually control the heating in their bedrooms

In your own home, you can control the heating directly or negotiate with other people to have it on at mutually acceptable levels, or you can install radiators with independent controls or put heaters in.

-Internal thumb turn locks on the front and back doors to escape the property without using a key, in the event of fire. There are just normal locks which require keys.

I don't know about you, but in our house we could escape in the event of fire without using a key. It's hardly a luxury, it just requires something like Yale locks.

-fire blanket in the kitchen when there should be.

Again, we've got one of those. You can get them for under £10, it's not an unusual luxury.

-gas safety inspection every year

Well, yes. We get those, don't most people?

So screw the person who was going to move into your ds' room, who also doesn't have any money and therefore limited choices.

You don't know that anyone is due to move in, or what their financial situation might be. Surely if OP's son kept quiet and that person subsequently died in a preventable fire, they would be infinitely more screwed?

OP's son was happy to take the risk in return for a cheap place. Next person probably also happy to take the risk.

@Pfefferkuchen I realise it's his own home but when you're a landlord it's different. He should know the rules and regulations of being a landlord if he chooses to be a landlord. You can do whatever you want about your own safety in your own home but it's completely different when other people are living there. The laws are there for a reason.

What a bizarre thread

"So your son put up with a dangerous environment because he couldn't find anything else within his budget? And now, not grateful for the fact that he's had somewhere to stay and hasn't caused any harm you want to claim rent back."

Why should he be grateful for being put up in an illegal unsafe uncomfortable environment? The room was actually worth zero as it wasn't fit to be let out legally.

The rules giving tenants 12 months rent back are there to compensate them for the risk that they took while living there. He did live there for a year with that risk. He is legally entitled to the money back.

The landlord thought that the tenants would not report the breach and that he could make money out of them without the costs of HMO licences or safety checks, thus increasing his profit.

You can argue that the law is wrong, but there is no way that someone is being unreasonable for reporting an illegal act that has put them (or their son) at risk, and receiving the legal compensation that they are entitled to. and a nice bonus for the council to boot which can be used to investigate other cases of landlord exploitation.

So it was ok to compromise his safety when it suited you both so he could afford somewhere to live, but it doesn't anymore. How odd.

It's a local authority 'law'. B&H council are stricter than most because of the over-supply, not because they think three lodgers is inherently more dangerous. Anywhere else someone lodging wouldn't have the right to expect thermostats on radiators etc.

@HugoSpritz I've already said he couldn't live with me because I also rent a room in a shared house. I am looking to move out soon and get a place of my own again.

@Titchy I have looked at HMO regulations for other councils around the country and they all say about the fire safety I've mentioned, individual controls for heating and gas safety checks. You can find this yourself easily on Google. It's not just Brighton.

Has your ds even talked to the landlord about it? has the LL refiused to do any of those things?

You see of you had said that your ds had talked to the LL, that he place was dangerous and x happened etc.... and that, as oon as he realised the place was dangerous, he looked for something else, that would have been one thing.

But thats not what happened.

I have to say I personally couldnt be bothered by any of the things you mentioned. And if I had to chose betwene having no fire blanket (that he could have bought anyway at £10) and being homeless, I know very well what I would have chosen.....

If the landlord disagrees with the local authority "law" then he can take it up with whomever deals with making such laws.

The point is that to be a landlord in B&H, you have to comply with these laws. This landlord decided to ignore the law. Because he ignored the law, the tenants are entitled to their money back, the council is entitled to £20k and he is no longer allowed to be a landlord as he does not follow the law.

If he doesnt like the laws in B&H he can move somewhere else that allows people to rent out overcrowded deathtraps.

He would probably fit right in in the London housing market.

If this is all about safety, why didn't you report when you first saw this place?
Stop dressing this up as your civic responsibility.

You were fine with it when your son got cheap accommodation. Now hea leaving, you've seen a way for him to get 12 months rent back so you're reporting it. This isn't about safety to you, it's about you and your son just trying to make money.

I'm all for reporting. He shouldn't be allowed to continue. But you should have reported way back when... I'm judging you because you're only doing it now to get a refund on rent. It's a selfish reason. If your son wasnt leaving the house then neither of you would say a word.

I agree with previous posters your intentions are dodgy if you were that concerned about your sons welfare you would of reported it months ago. Seems like your son and you are just after a bit of money

The definition of an HMO varies though, and B&H are far stricter than most in saying someone with more than two lodgers is an HMO.

Cherryma
I don't disagree about the regulations and it being a business, I was just pointing out that the careless spiteful money-hungry landlord hardly seemed to apply here.

Equanimitas

in all the properties I rented, bought and visited, you could escape by the windows and needed a key to open the doors when locked...

I don't know anyone who has a fire blanket or does a yearly gas check

Sorry but you sound grabby and mean-spirited.

I never understand these people who go straight from 0 - 100% angry/reporting to council etc.

Did your son request to see the Gas Safety Certificate? Perhaps there is one, but the landlord just forgot to email a copy?

Did your son ask about any of the issues you are now raising?

You know, it's perfectly possible to have a non--confrontational conversation about things with a landlord and this is often the quickest way to resolve issues.
As previous posters have said, there may be circumstances which mean the landlord is exempt from some of the things you think he should be doing.
You can buy a fire blanket for about £7.50 - if you were really worried, why didn't you buy one for your son?

I agree that your DS (not you) should have raised the issues of obligations the LL was failing to meet at the time they were first noticed.
And then if nothing was done about them, your DS (not you) should have reported the LL. Of course this would have probably meant the LL was shut down and DS would have to move.

So the question is why didn't DS raise the issues with the LL and then report? Was it by any chance because his mother told him he could keep quiet and hopefully get a year's rent back at the end? It isn't just now that you have bei me aware of the LL being irresponsible is it, but you kept quiet because it suited you.....you weren't so worried about the safety issues that you told him to move out or reported him so he and his housemates would be safe, but just left them living there.

So whilst I am all for LLs sticking to the rules and people speaking to LLs about failures and then reporting if there isn't an improvement, I am not for people who just want to get a year of free rent on the back of a LL not meeting requirements.

It reminds me of people who deliberately position themselves on the road so someone will drive into them and they can make an insurance claim.

Will your DS be looking for new accommodation where he can see the LL isn't meeting the legal requirements so he can live there for a year and can then make a claim against the landlord? Bare there other areas of life that you are looking at to see where people aren't meeting their obligations so you can sue them? It all sounds very pre-meditated.

Just out of interest. what rent did your son pay?