AIBU to ignore my dad

[Callaird]

I posted this in the Dementia section but got no replies, I just need a little perspective and maybe help from people who have been there.

I am just at the end of my tether with my Dad, I am at a loss what to do next.

Long story as short as I can make it.

Mum has Motor Neurone Disease, can no longer talk, eat, is tube fed, is slowly losing her mobility, I’m carer for both for the moment.

Since August he has fallen over 5 times doing quite a bit of damage, broke 3 bones in his neck falling over a wall, brace for 3 months, ripped the skin off his hands and knees twice, knocked himself unconscious twice, both times ended up in an ambulance to A&E. Then a dozen or so little tumbles/stumbles, little damage.

He drinks, he says he doesn’t but we know he does, his decision but alcohol is the cause of most of his accidents. He also has type 2 diabetes, eats terribly, 2/3 packets of sweets a day, breakfast at 10/10:30 (that’s mums carers fault, they come in 3 times a day to feed mum so I get a bit of time out, they make him feel like he is always in their way, totally lovely carers (in the main) nothing could be further from the truth) he skips lunch and has a ready meal for his dinner. (Slightly off track but pertinent I think - He's a meat, potatoes and two veg, cooked to a mush man, lots of gravy/sauce, I like rice and grains, almost raw veg and don’t eat a lot of meat. On the occasions when I have something that he might eat, I will cook for us both but there is never a ‘thank you, that was nice’ it’s always ‘it was ok I guess, filled a hole.) so he is always unsteady on his feet and stumbling.

Today I just don’t want to have any more to do with him, he is a spiteful drunk and I just cannot put up with the way he talks to me. He went out to ’take the dog around the block’ (go to the pub and have a couple of whiskeys after the half a pint he drank at home (he hasn’t had a drink since last Friday when he fell, knocked himself out and cut his temple and eye, went to A&E in an ambulance.)) He fell again, grazed his shins, pee’d himself and was brought home by a couple of strangers, told me he hadn’t been drinking but I know he had, saw him pouring the drink at home and our neighbour saw him in the pub and pulled in as dad was escorted home. I said that I knew he had and that I wasn’t stupid, he told me that I am too fucking stupid to be his daughter and now I just want nothing more to do with him. Tomorrow he is not going to remember any of it, he’ll want us to go back to normal but I can’t. I have to be at their house from 9:30am until 10pm when the night carer comes in for mum. I can get away for an hour at lunch when mum’s carer comes to feed her and I have booked tomorrow’s night carer to come in at 7pm to take over from me at a cost of £50 which I can’t really afford as I cannot work but I need some time away from him.

I after that ramble, my question is, how do you deal with a dementia patient who hates you?

Sorry, I meant to say that this is a regular thing, every week, he gets drunk, does something stupid, I say something and he screams abuse at me, tells me to fuck off and leave them both alone (I can’t! Mum cannot do anything herself, he thinks he’s as strong as he was when he was younger, tried to lift mum, they both end up on the floor. I really wish I could just walk away.) I cannot go on this way.

Sorry, also forgot to add that he has dementia and Alzheimer’s. It was the title of my other thread.

Is there a dementia specialist home anywhere near you?

Big have no experience in this. Just wanted to say you are amazing for doing this at all is there no government help you can get ? I can't imagine having to deal with that kind of abuse cause you are looking after them.

Honestly I think you need to somehow find the headspace to work out how this stops.

It sounds really really hard.
I think the hardest part is that nothing you do or say will change things. He doesn’t want to stop drinking and he doesn’t want to eat more healthily, and he won’t change. So all you can do it accept that these accidents will keep happening, which isn’t easy. I assume you have already investigated all the help available for your parents in your area. Have you also investigated what help might be available for you?
My MIL was her MIL’s carer when she had dementia and it was relentless.
for you.

You need to speak to social services - I presume that's how you got carers for your mum? You need respite from your dad and he needs care himself. Even a day centre for complex needs would give you a break from him. You need to get a complete reassessment for both of them. Your mother's safety may be being compromised by his behaviour and he may be considered to lack capacity due to dementia and alcoholism and thus be a danger to himself. Carer stress is also recognised as an important aspect. Please get in touch and as for more help. It could be classed as cases of adult protection due to their health and your father's lack of capacity. The help is there so please demand it.

Hugs to you.

Agree with pps. Talk to social services and make it clear that the current care package is no longer appropriate. It's not safe for your mother and it's not sustainable for you. It really sounds as though it could be time to consider residential care, or at the very least a more substantial home care package.

Do you live with them? How old are you.

This does not sound like a safe or sustainable situation, and it sounds like your Dad no longer is able to safely live in his own home.

Have you looked into residential care facilities?

Write it all up, post copies to social services and to your parents gp and yours. This cannot go on.

This sounds so awful and no way to live op. What is your own situation? I agree that their living arrangements need to be reviewed. It's not safe for both of them.

OP, honestly this cannot be working for you.
It's too much.
You need to put yourself first and tell social services that you are withdrawing your services as it has become too much.

I know that may be hard to do but you are being abused by your father and that cannot be good for your mental health.

You need to put yourself ahead of him.

Wishing you strength 💐

I would get social care involved and put him in a home.

Can you access any palliative care support for your mum? If your mum and you would rather she remained at home then that obviously wouldnt be appropriate but you must be just exhausted. I looked after a patient with mnd in a specialist palliative care centre, beautiful big rooms looking out on to a garden, and nothing like a hospital. They could get the care they needed for the later stages. Their spouse (with dementia) was unsafe to stay at home was placed in a care home and came in to visit once a week, other family came every day but thankfully got to sit and spend time with their relative. You can also be more involved with the care if you prefer, we had one daughter who came in to help wash her mum every morning.

When did you post this in Dementia- I can't remember seeing it, and keep a pretty good eye on that section.

As people said- you need to get social services involved. In theory they should assess both your parents individual needs and those of yourself as carer.

9.30am to 10pm is not sustainable for you as a carer. You will lose your health and then will be no use to anyone as a carer.

In your position, I would say that you can't look after your Mum if your father is present. Then let SS and your Mum sort it out. If she still wants him around, they will have to sort something, if she is happy for him to move out, then you can increase your involvement if you want to.

While ever you take responsibility for your parents, Social Services will let you. Now is the time to tell them that you won't do it any more.

Your mum needs round the clock care and would be safer in a home. I know you do your best, but you have your father to deal with as well, and his being there puts your mother at risk as you don't know what he might do when you're not around.

Your father needs to be somewhere where the carers are professionals and able to be objective about the things he says and does.

You can visit your mum every day as you still do, I bet she'll be happier if she doesn't have your father in her life too.

@KrampusTime I don’t live with them, I’m staying 5 minutes away. I’m 51!!

@TooManyPaws - I’ve called everything one I can think of but they come to visit in the morning when he’s relatively together so don’t think he’s that bad. It was all easy for mum as she has a life limiting condition so I got all my information before she had the formal diagnosis from the motor neurone disease association so the afternoon it was confirmed I rang everyone who could help and got the ball rolling straight away.

With Dad, he says he doesn’t have anything - not diabetes (community nurses come in every morning to tell/watch him inject his insulin) he doesn’t have Alzheimer’s, he doesn’t have dementia so he tells everyone that he doesn’t need help so they leave and close the file until I phone them again, it’s just a vicious circle.

My parents doctors have been marvellous, (I live 70 miles away, my job came to an end 4 days after mums diagnosis so I decided to take 2/3 months off to get mum sorted and 18 months later I’m still here, broke!) I’ve been going to them to help, I see a councillor once a week and another through the Alzheimer’s society. I was on anti depressants but things got better back in the spring so I didn’t get a new packet when they ran out and I’ve been feeling ok until October time.

@billy1966 if it was just dad I would have walked away ages ago but I cannot leave him mum alone with him, he thinks he can do everything for her but he can’t, he’s not strong enough, he’s not steady enough and he doesn’t listen or (benefit of the doubt) doesn’t remember how to safely help her. 3 months ago I popped to the chemist (don’t get me started on their chemist!!) and I was gone about half an hour, he dropped her on the floor and fell on top of her, neither could get up, she cracked her head open on the dado rail on the way down, thankfully they both have falls pendants and when I got there they were loading both into an ambulance.

Beseen19 - she doesn’t want to leave her home, I won’t (can’t, she’s a feisty woman and there is absolutely nothing wrong with her mind!!) make her. She is under the palliative care team at the local hospice, she goes there 2 afternoons a week and really enjoys herself there. She wants to die at home and the palliative team will do their best to make sure that will happen. The local hospice is amazing!

Mum has had funding agreed for a full time carer but we have no start date in sight as yet.

Thank you to everyone who has replied, I was beginning to think that it was me!!

@MereDintofPandiculation I posted late last night when I got back. Dad was pissing me off when I reposted here. ‘‘Tis morning Mum told him what he said last night (she has an iPad with a speech app that she hates using, we get by with charades, mums own sign language and more recently some kind of semaphore! She always has a hanky in her hand!) and when I got here (with my 3 year old niece) I told him too. I told him that if I’m too stupid to be his daughter I am no longer his daughter, that he is no longer my dad, that MY dad would never have spoken to me like that, no caring father would speak to their child that way and that I don’t want him to speak to me again. He just got angry with me, telling me that I’m stupid and that he would never talk to me that way and that I must be mental in the head, I packed up my and my niece and Mum and we went out for the day. Got back about 3 after dropping my niece home as I didn’t want her involved again, he was drunk again, pissed himself, if he walked into a room, I walked out, I refused to answer him which wound him up, he stood up quickly when I walked out when he started berating me, he lost his balance and slid down the wall and ended up on his bum, he flapped around like a floundering fish for 15 minutes (with mum giggling at him!) and then just lay on the floor until mums carer came in and helped him up, so then I had to tell her all that had happened and that he didn’t ask me to help him so I left him on the floor!

@Callaird I thought that may be the case. I've looked after a few patients with mnd and they never lost their mind...nor their sense of humour! Perhaps as her needs change she may change her mind, it helps that she regularly attends the local hospice and it's a familiar place for her. I know it's where I would want to be.

Another option for support could be having a chat with your fathers district nurse? Our district nurse would have both your mum and dad on their case load with their current health needs and be able to access support if you as their carer weren't coping. They often complete joint assessments with social work/care managers in our area which would be a massive help for you as he couldn't lie about his needs. They would have details of his past medical history but also the incident where they both ended up on the floor which would demonstrate to me that he is unable to maintain his own safe environment and that of your mum.

It's an impossible situation and you have done so well, I really dont know how you are managing.

It just sounds horrendous OP.
Perhaps you are going to have to explain to your Mum that you need help and that you need for her to help you and go into a home.
Is this new behaviour from your Dad?
Was he a good father?
Or is this more of the same with dementia thrown into the mix?
If it is I honestly think you have to protect yourself.
If that means your mother must go into a home to protect your MH. Well so be it.
You won't be any good to her if you have a breakdown with all this stress.

💐

@Beseen19 - thank you. I do think that if she needed to, she would go quite happily to the hospice but at the moment she is managing at home. She loves all the staff and volunteers at the hospice and the living well centre. She really does have fun there.

The district nurses are amazing too! I have a direct number to the district nursing sister who is a massive help, she convinced CHC that mum needs 24/7 care. I will give her a call on Monday.

I’m not sure how I am managing it either. I’m usually ok, I have my moments when I feel I can’t cope but it blows over and we kick along ok. This just really hurt me, my dad would never have spoken to me this way and I know it’s the drink talking, mum said that he was never a mean drunk, stupid yes, mean no. I’m sure that some of it is to do with the dementia but I feel it’s only going to get worse. He shouted angrily ‘shut up’, spittle and all, at his 3 year old granddaughter today, he was hung over and he had given her a toy whistle, not sure what he expected but my brother would stop him seeing her for something like that.

Thank you for all the advice.

@billy1966

He was a great father! Worked really hard, very long hours but was a fun dad, I was his baby girl, he did everything for me and my brothers. He was a ‘new man’ long before the new man was invented. He would cook, clean, change nappies, he gave mum his unopened wage packet on pay day and mum would give him his ‘pocket money’! I have so many lovely memories with my dad. He still does all the washing, washing up, changes the beds and will hoover/mop in between their cleaners twice weekly visits.

I do think the alcohol is his coping mechanism. I know he is struggling to manage his feelings. He has no friends. His best friend lives 70 miles away and his wife is very ill too, they talk on the phone a couple of times a week but they are both a little deaf so the conversations are a little one sided. His other good friend passed away about 7 years ago. I try to set him up with social events and he does go but he says it’s rubbish. I think he’s like me, I like small groups, I get very uncomfortable in big groups and end up scuttling out early! He goes to carers counselling at the local hospice twice a month which he does feel helps.

I wouldn’t put mum in a home, it’s not what she wants and she is completely with it, it’s her body that is failing her not her mind. We have talked about what would happen and when but it will be her decision in the end.

That’s what really upsets me, mum cannot do anything to change her condition, he can but it’s all about him.

Thankfully she will be getting a live in 24/7 carer in the new year and that will ease the pressure on me (I’m longing for the day that I can stay in bed most of the morning with a good book!) and hopefully I can go back to work but part time. There is light at the end of the tunnel, just not sure how long that tunnel will be. This just tipped me over the edge and it helps to talk to strangers, get a little perspective and be told that it is not ok to be spoken to that way.

Thank you.

Callaird, you sound quite callous towards your father. If he has dementia then his behaviour is a symptom of it, as is the incontinence. Dementia patients are worse in the evening - it's called sundowning.

In my experience with dementia there is this aggressive stage that you are going through at present. Gets worse of an evening. I explain it as the social filter is lost and any prior control they had over their emotions no longer exists. Not everyone gets aggressive, but it is common.

Social workers should be well aware of sundowning. There are tests that doctors do to diagnose dementia - simple questions eg what day is it - score out of around 30 questions can indicate dementia. Has your father been properly assessed? I'm in a different country but I believe the assessment is world wide.

Speaking from experience here. My FIL has dementia, diabetes, double incontinence and probably more besides. My MIL has arthritis, is pre diabetic and has other health issues.
Mum had to go into hospital a while ago and it took some time to get full time care for dad; we'd done it for a while between us but we all work so it was unsustainable. Whilst we had the live in carer, I was trying to get dad assessed for a place in a nursing home while mum was in hospital. The assessors turned up, had a chat with dad, the carer and me but, like your experience, as it was in the morning, he was quite lucid and said he wasn't going into a home. Unless he's in danger or obviously incapable, they can't make him. Without a health power of attorney, the family can't do anything.
I ran myself ragged trying to sort something out, as did the rest of the family, tho me and my DIL did the most as we worked the least.
When mum came home from hospital she carried on as before, but it wasn't long before dad had a fall and ended up back in hospital. We had weeks of visiting(not a local hospital either) and as mum can't drive it was down to the family again. Dad eventually came home, few weeks later, rinse and repeat. Mum couldn't manage but she wouldn't have it.
Eventually, she couldn't have him home, she finally realized that it was unsustainable. (Took 2 years)
The last time he was in hospital after a fall, she said she wouldn't/ couldn't have him home. Cue various meetings with doctors, social workers, council adult mental health team etc, I could write a book about it. Eventually he's been found a place in a local nursing home, and it's the best solution.
Could you perhaps consider the nuclear option next time he's in hospital, and refuse to have him home? Not popular, bed blocking etc but whilst you're picking up the pieces there's no incentive for social services etc to step in.
It's a nightmare to deal with but try and remember it's an illness that makes him like that.
I love both my in laws and I'm glad I have the time and chance to help them but my God it tries your patience.

That's a lot going on for one person. You need to find something that helps you. You should definitely attend your local Al-Anon meeting. There you will learn the futility of trying to reason with an alcoholic. You will hear stories and advice from people who have lived through and are living through what you are experiencing.

I have no real advice for you with regards accessing help for him. Maybe your GP or health visitor could advise. But Al-Anon is a must for you. And it's for YOU. To process your thoughts and feelings. It won't "fix" the alcoholic.