Should I report a sad experience at nursing home?

[Curlystars]

By the way, have name-changed for this.

A couple of days ago, I went with my DS (9) and his small rural primary school choir to a local retirement/nursing home so the children could sing carols to the residents. All very lovely and the children had been rehearsing for weeks.

While they were singing an elderly resident, wearing only a tee shirt and a nappy, wandered in and came up to me.

Bless her. She hung on to my arm and would not let go. Poor lass was trying to say something. I couldn’t understand what she was saying and just hugged her.
There were no members of staff around at all.

I know this retirement home charges a lot of money for the care of residents. Perhaps all care homes do, I don’t know.

Should I report this care home for the total lack of respect shown for this poor woman’s dignity?

I think you should have alerted the staff. She should have had someone bring her a dressing gown. My son has learning disabilities and does sometimes remove his clothes. When others are around the staff ensure he is covered up to protect his dignity. Nursing homes are very understaffed but you are absolutely right that they should have been taking care of her.

Ewe sometimes had only 5 carers to almost 50 residents.

2 carers toileting someone, another 2 changing someone who's bedbound. Another answering buzzers

2 nurses one doing paper worj/showing people around/ dealing with someone who's unwell and another maybe doing drug round/stock take

Someone should be in the lounge at all times but unfortunately that doesn't always happen

People wandering around confused and semi naked isn't something staff want to happen but you can't be every where at once unfortunately.

So the children were there to sing carols to the residents and there were no members of staff around at all? Not even senior members in the office?

Were you the only adult with the school children? If there were others with you then surely one of you could have searched for a member of staff.

I find it odd that a school group would be allowed into a home for elderly people without any staff being allocated to greet visitors and support residents...

Total lack of dignity.
There will be assessments in place for each resident and what to do in circumstances where residents display behaviours such as this.
In this case nothing was done.
Total lack of care.
Report.

I'd report this definitely. A resident who wanders about half dressed with incontinence pants on show is vulnerable. A visitor shouldn't be alone with them, there should be a member of staff in the same room at all times.

It's also not very nice for you as you couldn't understand what she needed.

Again, thanks all for your replies.

But to posters like Raspberrytruffle I am definitely not having a pop at hard working care staff who do so much for little pay.

My respect goes out to you all for the care you give. I couldn’t do your job. Also, I don’t know if the lady I encountered had dementia or not, as many are assuming. I’m not a medic.

BUT that’s missing my original point. Are there any retirement/care home manager/owners on here who can answer my concerns regarding the dignity of their clients?

It causes some people to lose their boundaries - I've just been doing a placement in a home for people with various forms of dementia and it can really hit people differently - we had a couple who had lost inhibitions and would flash various bits. We just gently got them to put the bits away and carried on - because it's the illness doing that, not the person. Got told I looked like a lovely person to be killed a few times as well... Again the illness talking and they were genuinely lovely people in among the confusion and challenging behaviour.

Being left without staff there is the real issue - the one time I was left alone with residents the manager went ballistic on the staff for doing that.

The wandering wouldn't concern me though - we had a fair few who were only calm and not distressed if they were allowed to wander - we just made sure their route (was very repetitive) was safe for them.

^^ THIS

For a year I used to go (with an organised group) once a week to a nursing home for an hour or two to chat to residents. Mine arranged through Catholic Church. Lots of residents dementia, kept repeating conversation. Whilst we were there would get some smiles and hand holding, I am sure they liked the interaction, ones able we would say prayers together, we brought magazines that they might have interest in, always asked us to come back.
Haven’t had time to do this in past 2 years but would encourage anyone with time (and patience) to consider it.

didnt post properly . From working in many homes (as agency) there should really always be a permanent member of staff in the lounge. more so as there were visitors. Yes its hard to man these areas properly due to lack of staff.. staff on breaks, staff seeing to other residents however even then a senior, the nurse or even the person running the shift could come & sit in the lounge area for 5mins until a staff member came along. I would speak to management of this home & not CQC

I guess my point is, care homes can’t do it all, I think we have to build society (but appreciate I’m not doing much myself to this end currently).

Visitor want to see a fairytale nursing home, but dementia and frail elderly is a bit brutal and not that dignified. We are all asking so much of care workers, to care for these people, keep them safe but not imprison them.

Reffering to an incontinence pad as "a nappy"? YABVU

Some dementia sufferers need one to one care but there isn’t the budget for it. If there are only two members of staff and someone heavy needs the toilet then they wouldn’t be able to supervise it n the lounge. I think you really have to actually do the physical caring side of dementia to really understand.

I wouldn't. If you've never worked in dementia care, you have no idea. Unless the pad was dirty, she very well may have done it herself. There is no 1-1 so if someone gets undressed, there isn't a staff memeber following them around to out a skirt back on 24 hours a day. Unless you had other concerns, this isn't enough to raise a complaint over, and you didn't find it worrying enough at the time that you took the time to find a staff member to rectify it. I know you've stated you had to get your son and leave, but if you'd really felt that strongly- you could have taken 5 minutes then to talk to someone as opposed to more time now to complain

@Curlystars
If a resident decides that they do not want to get dressed, or gets undressed by themselves it's not always in their best interests to force them to get dressed. If the home has a deprivation of Liberty order in place, only then can they force someone to get dressed or stay in their room. They take months to get, for example my Nans home applied in May, it's only just been granted.

Now, would you prefer that poor lady to be locked in her room, just because her presence and appearance upset you, or for her to be walking freely around her home?

Or would you prefer her getting distressed after being forced to get dressed against her will? Surely that is undignified?

Care homes aren't lovely and fluffy places to visit to make you feel jolly. People with complex issues and problems live there, you are in their space so you need to understand that you may see things that are distressing.

If you really feel you must complain, speak to the manager. Unfortunately though, it may have been a situation where staff were called away to other residents.

www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/deprivation-liberty-safeguards-dols

@CarolinaPink

Do you know that intergenerational contact and activities is hugely beneficial to both the elderly and the children who participate?

How on earth is a child to learn empathy, diversity and inclusion if they are not able to socialise or be near with people of all walks of life with all manner of illnesses or disabilities?

Do you think all people with mental health illnesses should be kept out of sight so as not to upset a small child?

Back to the OP - to be honest, someone within your school party should have got a member of staff. It's really not difficult to find someone in a care home. I'm sure if you had an issue in a shop that required senior input then you'd do your utmost to ensure someone was found to sort out your complaint.

Obviously the dignity of every person is of paramount importance. But there are many times in a care setting where the corridors seem quiet and yes, certain situations can and do get missed. None of us are perfect and nobody can be in every corner of every care home at all times. By all means contact the manager of the home and alert them to your experience, but I think CQC would be a step too far in this instance.

I disagree, I think you should report it to cqc. There was no staff in the communal areas overseeing people and the children. You couldn’t find any staff and the lady’s dignity was severely compromised. There may be nothing in it but cqc can investigate. It adds to their intelligence of the service. Far too often we hear about failings in safeguarding when people see things but don’t report them as they think they’re irrelevant.

If she wasn't mentally impaired in some way she would have been aware of her lack of attire and the inappropriateness of grabbing a stranger with children in the room. She would also have known where the staff could be found or how to call them (buzzer/alarm cord).

Her behaviour sounds like she has some form of it.

Was she clean? What happened after you hugged her?

loutypips
If you’d read my previous posts, I never ever implied someone should be locked away. That would be outrageous. Of course care homes aren’t ‘lovely and fluffy places’!

The poor half-dressed lass didn’t distress or upset me at all. I was simply concerned for her, as there was no one around to help her.
If there had been, I would obviously have said something then and there.

My heart goes out to all of you who have relatives in residential homes, whatever their medical requirements may be. I sincerely hope they are getting the very best care.

And before anyone says just wait til your Mam’s in a home, she sadly died after a massive stroke two years ago.

Thanks anyway for all your input and best wishes.

Yes I'd report this...firstly that a group of visitors were left completely unsupervised with a bunch of residents, and secondly the incident with the woman.

This!

What is going on with all the greedy care home owners, are they really all just unscrupulous and money grabbing?

You do wonder where all the money goes, however if they shut then the patients end up bed blocking in hospital which is much worse.

Perhaps we need better regulations for care homes?

Presumably she had dementia, so it's entirely possible that she had refused to be properly dressed, or had only just taken her other clothes off. These things do happen with dementia, so please don't be too quick to judge the staff.

More than once I found my mother (who had dementia) not properly dressed in her (very good) care home - her nightie still on under a jumper and over her trousers, etc. Staff would apologise, but she'd refused all help - she could be extremely stroppy, as I was well aware.

People with dementia can often be very difficult when it comes to personal care and dressing.