to think the rich can just off off if they don't like it?

[Whalebird]

Joking, they won't.

With an apology for the grabby title, here are some bits and pieces on the myth that if we tax the rich they'll leave. And by rich I mean really rich-not just Mumsnet 'we have three holidays a year but one of them is in the UK' rich (which is still pretty rich in my book), but 'we have a swimming pool in our London house' rich.

The UK is the only country in Europe apart from Switzerland which doesn't tax the income of non-domiciled residents; that's people who own houses here, and live here most of the time, but aren't registered as living here. If we taxed them in the same way we tax residents, (like Spain, Germany, France do) the yearly revenue would equal the current NHS budget. Even if some of them did leave, it would still be worth it. And it's hard to see what they're adding to this country as it is.

There's also very very strong evidence that UK nationals and permanent residents are unlikely to leave if we increase taxes. Cristobal Young 's research is really interesting. He uses US data, which is a really strong set to draw from. The US has freedom of movement across the states and independent tax structures, so according to the theory of 'millionaire flight' all the wealthiest people should just move to the lowest-taxing state. In fact they tend to stay in states like New York and California, which have relatively high taxes, because these are the places where they want to be.

I'm not sure how big an issue this is for most people but it's something I've come across a bit recently so wanted to talk about it tonight. Vote Labour, obviously.

Oh for goodness sake I meant eff off.

Yeah you are being unreasonable but you know that.

I think it's pretty immaterial tbh as I am predicting a Tory win.

This doesn't please me but I think it's what we're stuck with. If the Tories have any sense though they will ditch Boris and Labour will ditch Corbyn,

I agree in general with you but I don't think there's enough revenue there (I'm not saying it's not worth doing). Changing tax rules for firms like Amazon that sell here would raise alot more.

@DuckWillow oh, why? It seems like a very very obvious and sensible thing to do. I genuinely can't see any arguments against taxing the very rich more stringently, rather than leaving these loopholes.

@Pipandmum Yes absolutely, Amazon are basically farming us for wealth generation until we tax them properly. Companies shouldn't get non-dom status either.

Do you want the jews like me to fuck off as well? Will that help you?

Vote Tory. Never Labour. Anyone but Corbyn.

Arent the highest earning jobs eg finance, movie stars, in New York and California? So people have to stay there or they wouldnt be higher earners?

I know a very high earner. He is currently living and working in another country because of tax there and I know a couple of others who worked and lived in another low tax country for 5 years to save enough to buy mansions outright on their return. I know that's not exactly a decent sample size though

Amazon paid £800million in tax last year
Not to mention the thousands of people they employ who in turn pay tax.

@AIBU1112 err, no? Definitely not.

The UK is the only country in Europe apart from Switzerland which doesn't tax the income of non-domiciled residents

That is not true.

Serious question and slightly off topic (sorry OP) but surely you vote for the party and not the leader? I’m not keen on Corbyn either but when I think about the number of leaders a party has during their “reign of terror” then surely it’s better to vote for the party?

Well it would be worse for the country if they did eff off? We should be encouraging as much wealth to be created here as possible with a reasonable tax structure which benefits us but also benefits the employment of people working in luxury sectors.

The unfortunate truth is that if you want Scandinavian/Nordic style equality and public services EVERYONE has to pay high tax. In Denmark earnings of around 25k and above are taxed at 38%. New cars have massive taxes (I think 100%)

I’m not necessarily against that sort of system but people are being naive if we think we can just take money from the rich and it will solve all problems.

You seriously have no idea. The rich may not leave but their money will and that will fuck up Corbyn's stupid plans, except he's not going to win so panic over.

@AIBU1112 and what about the Islamophobia in the Tory party?

Honestly if you vote Tory I hope you don’t get sick

That’s not true what you said about tax. Sorry but you’re totally wrong. It might be nice to think there are easy answers and that there are some magic rich people who are are UK residents but don’t pay tax, but it’s not true and hasn’t been for years

I think that some high earners will leave. Not necessarily because of higher tax but because the industries that typically produce high earners are struggling with the uncertainty of Brexit.

My dad isn’t ‘swimming pool in London rich’ but I’m pretty certain his salary is over £80K given what he does and how high up he is. He’s considering leaving and going somewhere in Europe. Not because he’s going to get taxed more here but because there isn’t the work for him here due to Brexit.

If conservatives win and Brexit is delivered - certain industries which produce high earners will not be present in the UK. If labour win - we go back to more uncertainty while they work out what it is they’re doing and those industries also suffer. So either way, some of these people will leave.

People in the US chose to live in California and New York because there is (if you are wealthy) a high quality of life there. There are a high number of jobs and opportunities. The opportunities outweigh the tax. The UK doesn’t have anywhere near the same opportunities as New York or California. Europe does. They’ll take their higher tax rates and actually get a better standard of living and have opportunities.

Also what rules do you want to change for “amazon”? You read in the sun that they don’t pay enough tax but do you really have any idea why they pay what they do?

@Waxonwaxoff0 Classic whataboutery. Minimise my experience as a jewish person. Go on. You're just proving my point. No one should be discriminated against. If you can't get that into your thick head, then I understand why you'd support Labour.

Vote Tory obviously

"The super-rich are preparing to immediately leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, fearing they will lose billions of pounds if the Labour leader does “go after” the wealthy elite with new taxes, possible capital controls and a clampdown on private schools."

"Lawyers and accountants for the UK’s richest families said they had been deluged with calls from millionaire and billionaire clients asking for help and advice on moving countries, shifting their fortunes offshore and making early gifts to their children to avoid the Labour leader’s threat to tax all inheritances above £125,000."

"The advisers said a Corbyn-led government was viewed as a far greater threat to the wealth and quality of life of the richest 1% than a hard Brexit."

"Geoffrey Todd, a partner at the law firm Boodle Hatfield, said many of his clients had already put plans in place to transfer their wealth out of the country within minutes if Corbyn is elected."

"Lots of high-net worth individuals are worried about having to pay much higher taxes on their wealth and have already prepared for the possibility of a Corbyn government,” he said.“Transfers of wealth are already arranged–in many cases, all that is missing is a signature on the contract."

“There will be plenty of people on the phone to their lawyers in the early hours of 13 December if Labour wins. Movements of capital to new owners and different locations are already prepared, and they are just awaiting final approval.”

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/02/super-rich-leave-uk-labour-election-win-jeremy-corbyn-wealth-taxes

What “loopholes” do you want to remove? Non-Dom’s already pay yearly charges (of tens of thousands) or else pay uk tax on their worldwide income. If they make money in the UK they pay tax on that.

I think it's a risky, highly mobile and unpredictable tax base. HMRC reported in August that the number of non-doms had already dropped by 13% in the 2017-18 financial year, causing a £2bn dent in the tax take from this group (because non-doms are taxed on income and capital gains arising in the UK). It's not hard to see that number shrinking further if new tax structures are introduced, which would further reduce the tax base and cut revenue.

And you might be OK with some of them leaving the UK but by saying "it's hard to see what they're adding to this country" you're effectively saying you'd be happy to tell tens of thousands of foreigners to "eff off", which carries some unpleasant undertones.

Also there’s no such thing as being “registered” as living here. Sorry but you just don’t understand the tax system op.

Also your claim in your op that if you taxed these alleged people who pay no tax, you would raise the equivalent of the NHS budget is just obviously complete nonsense.