to think the rich can just off off if they don't like it?

[Whalebird]

Joking, they won't.

With an apology for the grabby title, here are some bits and pieces on the myth that if we tax the rich they'll leave. And by rich I mean really rich-not just Mumsnet 'we have three holidays a year but one of them is in the UK' rich (which is still pretty rich in my book), but 'we have a swimming pool in our London house' rich.

The UK is the only country in Europe apart from Switzerland which doesn't tax the income of non-domiciled residents; that's people who own houses here, and live here most of the time, but aren't registered as living here. If we taxed them in the same way we tax residents, (like Spain, Germany, France do) the yearly revenue would equal the current NHS budget. Even if some of them did leave, it would still be worth it. And it's hard to see what they're adding to this country as it is.

There's also very very strong evidence that UK nationals and permanent residents are unlikely to leave if we increase taxes. Cristobal Young 's research is really interesting. He uses US data, which is a really strong set to draw from. The US has freedom of movement across the states and independent tax structures, so according to the theory of 'millionaire flight' all the wealthiest people should just move to the lowest-taxing state. In fact they tend to stay in states like New York and California, which have relatively high taxes, because these are the places where they want to be.

I'm not sure how big an issue this is for most people but it's something I've come across a bit recently so wanted to talk about it tonight. Vote Labour, obviously.

Op, you are not correct in your tax assumptions.
The concept of domicility is different to residence.
The UK taxes non domiciled long term residents on their worldwide income and other non doms on either their worldwide income or that income remitted to the UK subject to a remittance base charge which is assessed with reference to the duration of residency.
What do you mean by registered here. There is a statutory residency test, which dictates whether or not an individual is resident. I am not sure there is a registration requirement.
I believe Malta does not tax non doms, but stand to be corrected.
Could I just clarify whether it is the contribution of the wealthy you are questioning or just wealthy non doms?
And finally, I agree there has been a lot of factually Incorrect media coverage recently but journalists generally know a little bit about a lot and understand practically nothing

I'm not even a particularly high earner, but DH and I agreed that if taxes get too high we're leaving. Will never vote labour either, awful party with an awful leader.

@aibu1112 Why is it okay to vote Tory with all the anti-Semitism in the Tory Party? Candidates liking Nazi slogans on Facebook is not a great sign is it?

@AIBU1112 so you’re fine with Boris’ anti-Semitic tropes and his blatant appeal to the far right who are anti-minorities? Okay then.

If only it was just Boris, there's a number of anti-Semites in the Tory Party and they're all still allowed to stand tomorrow and haven't been suspended.

The two political parties investigated by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission?

BNP and Labour.

@AIBU1112 I agree I could never support labour whilst the terrorist loving Corbyn is in charge along with his half wit ex girlfriend. They have absolutely no credibility. By the same token Boris doesn’t give me any confidence either. I hate what the tories have done to the Police service, it’s been decimated.

I just personally think that they are selfish pricks. When you earn hundreds of times more than the average person, but will actually take your family and move to another country - just so you don't have to pay a bit more tax, which will be used stop little kids going hungry, thousands of people having to sleep on the street, and the rapid decline of the NHS?

You'll still be mega rich. You're not going to be taxed so much that you have to choose between heating or eating. Blows my mind how people can be so selfish and uncaring.

I have just caught Diane Abbott on BBC News at some Labour rally a few minutes ago along with Thornberry.

Is there something seriously wrong with her. She sounded and looked spaced out and disoriented. And this women is a shadow Home Secretary!!!!

@BMW6 is that implying there's no need to investigate other parties? Because there's definitely examples of racism in the Tories and UKIP just to start.

@AIBU1112 I'm not minimizing your experience at all, just wondering why you would vote for a party that is also discriminatory.

Such naivete. My brother is a hedge fund manager, rich as Croeseus. If Labour get in, he won't leave the country but he'll make damn sure his money does and the money of his clients.

BMW6 is that implying there's no need to investigate other parties? Because there's definitely examples of racism in the Tories and UKIP just to start.

Sure, because EVERY political party has a number of racist twats in their midst who should be challenged and thrown out if needs be!

But how bad must Labour be to have triggered an investigation by The Commission? Conservatives haven't. Nor UKIP. Nor Libdems or Brexit, or SNP. Not Plaid Cymru.

So why BNP and Labour?????

on the myth that if we tax the rich they'll leave.

you do realise that many of them already have..

You only notice it when it's the entire business which relocates and jobs here are lost. Don't you read the news?

Really, to be put in the same category as BNP............FFS........if I were a member of the Labour Party I would be cringing with horror and shame, not trying to gloss over it or employ "whataboutery"

They'll carry on offshoring it, I imagine.

I'm not trying to gloss over it or use whataboutery. The outcome of the report hasn't been published yet but I do think it's good it's being investigated so it can be fixed and better processes can be put in place (and some already have).

I'm not sure the Tories or UKIP or Brexit care much about their racist candidates, they certainly haven't stopped them standing.

@peaceanddove Exactly.

It's not that the airports would be full of wealthy people emigrating, it's that the money will leave.

Even at my more modest - non-hedge fund - level we have options to avoid punitive labour taxation policies. The company I work for is relatively small at 50 people, but at least 40 of us earn over £80k and the company is very profitable.

None of our clients pay us via the U.K. - everything comes in from Asia and the USA - so my employer already has the facility in place to shift our profit making business to the UAE if the worst happened. The companies have been formed, directors have taken up residency visas to allow the companies to be owned and operated out of there, etc.

Global businesses like ours quite simply aren't trapped in the U.K. when it comes to deciding where revenues should land. We are here only because it's where the business was first formed and the majority of us live here, there's no other connection.

There are thousands upon thousands of companies like ours out there.

I would hate for us to go down that road but why on earth would any business with the option risk Corbyn and co' with their wacko, crackpot plans that are going to require huge quantities of private money to be confiscated.

Well, according to the guardian (article November this year), the top 1% pay about 1/3 of the total tax income.

I used to work in a bank where there were quite a lot of those high earners. When Osborne increased taxes for the highest income earners (was it £150k and above?), many of the bankers with the highest bonuses (think millions) moved abroad. They had their PAs research schools, houses etc. Switzerland was popular. Many were foreign nationals who then left London, but traveled to the London office about once a week after.

The bank was also flooded with financial advisors who helped anyone they could to see which deductions they could do (private healthcare, child care, pension contributions, isa, charities, etc, etc, etc). The people who didn’t do anything were the ones who earned quite a bit less.

I am a sahm who shops at Primark at the moment, but I want the top 1% to stay. I worry about the NHS and the schools if they leave.

What “loopholes” do you want to remove? Non-Dom’s already pay yearly charges (of tens of thousands) or else pay uk tax on their worldwide income. If they make money in the UK they pay tax on that.

Correct. I believe it's something like 35K per person, so 70K for a married couple, and of course non-doms still have to have some kind of UK income stream so they'll pay tax on that.

Non doms are really not going to suffer under Corbyn unless he changes their status, in which case it would be very easy for them to leave - by definition, they do not live in the UK.

yep fuck off if they dont want to pay tax!

vote labour xx

I don't think these people are leaving to avoid paying "a little bit extra"

Some will leave to avoid paying millions more. Some will leave to avoid having their businesses taken from them and nationalised. Some will worry about previous tax rates (99% etc). Some will simply be ready to move on due to natural cycles of their business.

I remember in the 70s under a Labour govt when my father had to pay 98% tax. We had to leave, and, consequently, he was never able to return. I dread things getting back to that kind of arrangement.

votejc

Spoken like a true Labour supporter...