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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if this election is actually pitting people against their own friends? Or am I being a snowflake?

36 replies

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:33

Apologies, this is superficially another election one. But also about friendships and what politics can do to people.

I have a very good friend, let's call her Friend A, who I see a lot. Friend A is a very active Labour party member and campaigner. On the left flank of the party and a very committed Corbynite. I hugely respect her commitment and principle, although I'm not convinced by a fair chunk of what she believes.

I am also a Labour voter and member (and will vote for them tomorrow) but I'm much closer to the centre wing of the party/borderline Blairite (though I have issues with them too). I essentially believe in some but not all of the Corbyn manifesto, am concerned by the implementation of some and particularly by the apparent hostility to almost any kind of business, the antisemitism issue and what I see as the Momentum tendency towards authoritarianism. Notwithstanding all this I'm very clear that I see them as by far the best option in this election. I have never and will never vote Tory.

I have had had several discussions with Friend A about this, more or less good natured although sometimes heated. She makes it clear she disagrees with me but has never led me to believe she thinks less of me as a result.

So it got back to me recently that two other friends in our social circle, Friend B and Friend C, had met recently for dinner. Friend B is an old friend who I see pretty rarely, but who is in pretty regular contact with Friend A. Friend B had told Friend C, who is also an old friend who I see a lot, that I was "incredibly right wing".

Friend B and I have met a handful of times in the past five years and I have not had a discussion about politics with them in the past decade, if ever. The only way Friend B can have formed this opinion of me is through information or opinions fed to them by Friend A.

So obviously there's a lot of variables here. 1) It depends how you define "incredibly right wing". There's a sliding scale here and maybe to a dyed in the wool Corbynite anyone who questions any of his policies fits that definition. But "incredibly right wing" to me carries overtones of fascism, racism, authoritarianism which I absolutely disavow and I really struggle to see how I could display those characteristics even to a very left wing person. 2) It's possible that Friend B came to this conclusion on their own based on their own interpretation of what Friend A said.

I'm a committed social democrat who is vocal about their commitment to a range of progressive social positions. I'm in favour of high taxation where necessary, a believer in support for the most vulnerable in society and want to protect the NHS. I was an avowed Remainer although I'm increasingly aware that the issue is so divisive that I'm prepared to accept a managed Leave in the interests of honouring the referendum. I desperately want a change in government.

Everyone's entitled to their political views, but I feel hurt and alienated that people I trust have felt able to portray me in a light like this. And scared, frankly, of how they will perceive me if they win.

Am I over-reacting? Or are they being nasty and hysterical? And perhaps more importantly, has this election corroded people's faith in politics so much that it's actually destroying friendships?

OP posts:
hsegfiugseskufh · 11/12/2019 16:37

i suppose it depends on how you take "incredibly right wing" as you've said, they could have just spoken in passing about it and not meant anything offensive, or they might have very opposing views.

I have to say this GE has made me think differently about some people with all the ill informed shite that's getting posted all over facebook, however i don't talk about them with other people and i wouldn't say anything to their face as everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how stupid i might think it is!

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:41

Bollykecks I dunno... to me "incredibly right wing" is a pretty clear slur. Even most Tories would be offended by that.

Of course you can't stop people sounding off in private etc. But it makes me worried, to be honest.

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/12/2019 16:45

This country has moved further to the right. Traditional conservatives like major and heseltine seem aghast at what has happened to their party.

BikeRunSki · 11/12/2019 16:47

I have friends, a couple, with very opposing political views. The atmosphere in their house is somewhat icy at the moment.

Fortunately DH and I hace always agreed ployicslkt.

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:51

GhostofFrankGrimes true... but by that measure shouldn't someone with my political views be regarded as somewhere on the left of centre? Even by someone on the hard left? It's all relative but there's a real lack of proportion at play here.

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MrsTWH · 11/12/2019 16:51

Jeez, if voting Labour makes you “extremely right wing” what must she think of any friends voting Tory?! Confused

I’m much the same as you, in a “safe” Tory seat and will be voting tactically for LibDem to try to oust the dead wood... a lot of my friends absolutely refuse to discuss politics and I believe this is because they all vote blue and don’t want to admit it, as we’re in a very affluent area.

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:54

MrsTWH quite. To be honest I think a major reason why certain sections of the population are not listening to the Labour message is because many centre left people are tired of being accused of being closet Tories. I'm sick of feeling I have to apologise for any dissent whatsoever against Corbyn at every turn.

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Modestandatinybitsexy · 11/12/2019 16:55

I live in a blue ring surrounding an red/orange bubble. I work in the red/orange bubble and I socialise mostly with people in the bubble. Every election people in my bubble are shocked and bemused that so much of the country seem to sympathise the other way.

I have no idea how this election is going to go. I feel like politics in general is letting everyone down at the moment and this is making everyone feel uneasy.

BovaryX · 11/12/2019 16:55

Do any of you know anyone who votes Tory? Or for any other party than Labour? ‘Incredibly right wing?’ Is this used to describe anyone who doesn’t regard Chairman Mao’s Red Book as a how to manual?

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:57

Bovary the overwhelming majority of my friends are Labour but I work with mainly Tories. I think my Labour friends regard me as a sell-out because of what I do.

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BovaryX · 11/12/2019 17:01

I think my Labour friends regard me as a sell-out because of what I do

They don’t sound much like friends. They sound like intolerant ideologues....

Purpleartichoke · 11/12/2019 17:04

The problem is the cancel culture infecting the left. If you don’t 100% agree with every position held by an individual, then you are a monster. It is incredibly frustrating to be a leftist who believes that some issues are nuanced

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/12/2019 17:07

What is the hard left? You seem to be using the same type language to describe people on the left that you don't like being used against people on the right ifswim

ForalltheSaints · 11/12/2019 17:07

Before 2016 people had differing views, but seemed to get along. The 2016 referendum seems to have changed that.

JasonPollack · 11/12/2019 18:05

I mean you don't sound very left wing to me.

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 18:16

Frank I didn’t define the hard left. I just said that I think it’s a stretch to describe any card carrying Labour member as “extremely right wing”.

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thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 18:20

JasonPollack I’m not very left wing. I’m also not very right wing. I am centre left as I explained earlier. I just feel some of the subtlety is lost sometimes.

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MidnightCircus · 11/12/2019 20:04

Bloody hell, a Labour voter is right-wing?! That's bonkers. Not even all Tory voters are right-wing, so that's just nuts. That's the biggest problem these days, no nuance, no subtlety, it's just black and white thinking. It's scary

WellErrr · 11/12/2019 20:08

People are generally less tolerant than they used to be. I’m voting Tory tomorrow. ‘Admitting’ that on here will probably get me accused of being all sorts because people just genuinely don’t seem to be able to accept that different people have different views and values.

dimsum123 · 11/12/2019 20:24

@WellErrr, what are your values?

Writersblock2 · 12/12/2019 00:16

@WellErrr This. I’m tired of it. I’m voting Tory and that doesn’t make me the horrible things some people are saying. But whatever. If that’s what their “camp” is like, I want no part of it.

CendrillonSings · 12/12/2019 00:19

Your friend has been captured by the cult. Eventually they’ll learn that if they keep telling enough moderate people to fuck off and join the Tories, they might just do it!

thepeopleversuswork · 12/12/2019 12:21

Cendrillon it does feel a bit like a cult to be honest. I've asked myself so many times why, given that I agree on paper with about 3/4 of what Corbyn's Labour is proposing, I feel so unsettled by the party and its behaviour.

Ultimately all I can come with is that there's this slight Scientology feeling about it. It's very with us or against us. Either you agree with Corbynology hook, line and sinker or you're a Tory.

I totally understand why people are so repelled by the Tories and share their concern to get them out. I just wish it could be done in a way which didn't make everyone who's not on the bandwagon feel so marginalised.

OP posts:
Youseethethingis · 12/12/2019 12:25

I have very good friends who voted opposite to me in the 2014 and 2016 referenda and will no doubt be voting differently to me again today. Our friendship is intact because we actually respect each other as human beings with a right to hold different opinions.

Bigoted individuals who can’t conceive of a world where people disagree with them may well struggle with this sophisticated social arrangement I have I in my circle.

littlepaddypaws · 12/12/2019 12:27

someone says how great their party is ? well, tdimm. Grin