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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if this election is actually pitting people against their own friends? Or am I being a snowflake?

36 replies

thepeopleversuswork · 11/12/2019 16:33

Apologies, this is superficially another election one. But also about friendships and what politics can do to people.

I have a very good friend, let's call her Friend A, who I see a lot. Friend A is a very active Labour party member and campaigner. On the left flank of the party and a very committed Corbynite. I hugely respect her commitment and principle, although I'm not convinced by a fair chunk of what she believes.

I am also a Labour voter and member (and will vote for them tomorrow) but I'm much closer to the centre wing of the party/borderline Blairite (though I have issues with them too). I essentially believe in some but not all of the Corbyn manifesto, am concerned by the implementation of some and particularly by the apparent hostility to almost any kind of business, the antisemitism issue and what I see as the Momentum tendency towards authoritarianism. Notwithstanding all this I'm very clear that I see them as by far the best option in this election. I have never and will never vote Tory.

I have had had several discussions with Friend A about this, more or less good natured although sometimes heated. She makes it clear she disagrees with me but has never led me to believe she thinks less of me as a result.

So it got back to me recently that two other friends in our social circle, Friend B and Friend C, had met recently for dinner. Friend B is an old friend who I see pretty rarely, but who is in pretty regular contact with Friend A. Friend B had told Friend C, who is also an old friend who I see a lot, that I was "incredibly right wing".

Friend B and I have met a handful of times in the past five years and I have not had a discussion about politics with them in the past decade, if ever. The only way Friend B can have formed this opinion of me is through information or opinions fed to them by Friend A.

So obviously there's a lot of variables here. 1) It depends how you define "incredibly right wing". There's a sliding scale here and maybe to a dyed in the wool Corbynite anyone who questions any of his policies fits that definition. But "incredibly right wing" to me carries overtones of fascism, racism, authoritarianism which I absolutely disavow and I really struggle to see how I could display those characteristics even to a very left wing person. 2) It's possible that Friend B came to this conclusion on their own based on their own interpretation of what Friend A said.

I'm a committed social democrat who is vocal about their commitment to a range of progressive social positions. I'm in favour of high taxation where necessary, a believer in support for the most vulnerable in society and want to protect the NHS. I was an avowed Remainer although I'm increasingly aware that the issue is so divisive that I'm prepared to accept a managed Leave in the interests of honouring the referendum. I desperately want a change in government.

Everyone's entitled to their political views, but I feel hurt and alienated that people I trust have felt able to portray me in a light like this. And scared, frankly, of how they will perceive me if they win.

Am I over-reacting? Or are they being nasty and hysterical? And perhaps more importantly, has this election corroded people's faith in politics so much that it's actually destroying friendships?

OP posts:
thepeopleversuswork · 12/12/2019 12:32

Youseethethingis in theory this still holds with my friendship group and it always did in the past. But I can't help feeling an increasing sense of "clubbiness" about it. If you don't throw yourself in totally to the cause or you dissent from any element of it, your loyalty is questioned. I'm not a Tory and neither are most of my friendship group so I don't know if Tories feel the same degree of pressure to vote in the "right" way. Their party is clearly very split as well so maybe they do.

It just feels to me that the civility, the presumption that each individual's democratic choice is to be respected and the social contract have broken down beyond repair.

OP posts:
LochJessMonster · 12/12/2019 12:33

I voted Leave and have voted Tory
My housemate voted remain and is voting labour
My best friend voted remain and voting labour

We often have some political discussions but we are all mature enough to understand different people have different views and so vote for different reasons.

IMO only close minded people let politics cause a rift.

PBo83 · 12/12/2019 12:42

I think the referendum created a kind of tribalism, you HAD to choose one side or the other (even if, in reality, you probably agreed with elements from both side of the argument).

Throw in social media and it's become US Vs THEM when, again, in reality there are probably people who see benefits and have reservations about all sides.

Personally I know the people who strongly oppose my opinions and we just agree not to discuss politics. It doesn't mean we don't respect each other's views but there's no point causing unnecessary conflict.

Patte · 12/12/2019 12:44

I have friends who vote in a number of different directions. While some of all persuasions are fine with disagreement, there does seem to be a rising intolerance, which I would say happens particularly on the left (but that could just be my group of friends.)

I have been slightly baffled by a couple of friends who are not just voting but campaigning for a candidate with whom I know they disagree on a couple of big issues. But that is of course their right (I just wouldn't myself bother with campaigning for the "least worst" option!)

thepeopleversuswork · 12/12/2019 13:18

PBo83 There's definitely a Brexit-related tribalism which is pretty entrenched, but this is a whole different axis: on the left at least there seems to be a degree of venom directed at people who lack ideological purity, ie people like me who are voting and supporting but not without qualifications. I can't speak for the Tories as I don't really know any well enough to discuss with them, so I would be curious to hear from any Tories here whether they have experienced this. I have no doubt the Leave vs Remain issue is still a faultline but this seems to me a separate point, its a question of how committed you are to the manifesto and the cause.

Historically the "let's agree to disagree" position has held on this front but it seems to be fraying. Which is why I was slightly shocked and offended by being told third hand that I was very right wing.

OP posts:
oncemorewithfeeling99 · 12/12/2019 13:21

Sounds like people are stirring. I very much doubt your friend actually said that.

thepeopleversuswork · 12/12/2019 13:33

oncemorewithfeeling well maybe, but someone clearly said it! I'm not sure what the source of it was but its clearly a trope among my friendship group that I'm a raving fascist :)

OP posts:
Youseethethingis · 12/12/2019 16:51

It just feels to me that the civility, the presumption that each individual's democratic choice is to be respected and the social contract have broken down beyond repair.

I agree with this statement with bells on 🔔

Loopytiles · 12/12/2019 16:54

The issues here are your friends’ rudeness, and your concern about what your friends think of your political views. Not the election.

Youseethethingis · 12/12/2019 17:06

On the other thing - a degree of venom directed at people who lack ideological purity
I’m a small c conservative. I think BJ is a clown and I don’t like many of the Conservative party’s policies, I think universal credit has been a clusterfuck, I think the approach to disability benefits has been hideous and I could go on. I also think JC is a very limited individual and the last thing we need is a puppet PM and what I believe to be ruinous public spending policies. I am very close to Swinsons seat. I hope she falls flat on her face - she’s got more than the town clock so shouldn’t be hard. She’s not fit to sit in Charles Kennedy’s old position. The SNP I have serious issues with because I tend not to much like people trying to rip up my country (that’s the UK). I voted to leave the EU because I studied it in detail at university and I was shocked out of my teenage idealism that I had at the time. Not much has happened in the decade since to make me change my mind back again. There are people from across the EU and indeed the world in my friendship circle and at work that I definitely do not want to drive out of the county in a fit of racist Leaver foaming at the mouth outrage.
In short, I am politically homeless and a stupid, racist, selfish blood traitor to Scotland blah blah blah blah blah.
Hope this helps.

ajandjjmum · 12/12/2019 17:07

I have an old friend, and that fact that she is very argumentative and left-wing is one of the reasons I choose not to see her very often.

She find 'discussions' stimulating but has no patience with anyone who has a different view. So we meet often enough to catch up on family news, but not extended 'general' conversation. Shame really, but she's always been the same, and neither of us will change now!

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