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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not contributing towards a pension is at best foolish and at worst utter stupidity?

506 replies

BHouse19 · 11/12/2019 08:08

I was really surprised (and concerned) having met with a large group of friends last night that some of them aren't contributing towards a pension (two stay at home mums for two + years and one who has opted out of her work place pension).

So I'm just wondering, if you're not contributing, how are you planning to survive during your retirement? Projections tell us that the state pension (if it still exists as we now recognise it) is in no way going to keep up with inflation.

Your husband or wife may be contributing to one but if the marriage breaks down the value of this to you is going to dramatically reduce for you as a single person

AIBU in thinking that saving for a pension is one of our most important financial responsibilities?

OP posts:
savethecat · 14/12/2019 14:41

I would love advice on how to save for a pension as a sole practitioner, part time self-employed. Some weeks I get absolutely nothing, others I will get a huge sum dumped into my account. I pay very little tax

Ellisandra · 14/12/2019 15:03

@lidoshuffle it’s actually even better than that!

If you put £100 into a pension, it’s actually grossed up to £125, not £120.
Because 20% of the total £125 is £25.

Ellisandra · 14/12/2019 15:32

@dayslikethese1 the best known pensions scandal was Maxwell, where he stole money from the pension fund to prop up other businesses to hide that they were all failing. A bit simplified (as I’m not expected! - he set up different annual reporting dates for each company, so say on 1st March the real bank balance for Company A was £50m so looked OK. Then he’d quickly transfer it all over to Company B for their 1st April date. Eventually it all collapsed and good riddance, the bastard killer himself.

This led to lots of changes in the law - for example, it’s not legal now for a company to “borrow” from its pension fund.

Another thing that changed was the introduction of the Pension Protection Fund. This provides protection for certain types of company pension - the defined benefit “promise to pay” ones, where you don’t have your own pot of contributions invested. Companies have to pay into this fund. If a firm goes bust, their pension fund still exists - because it cannot be used by the company to avoid going bust. But, it almost certainly won’t be able to cover its pension commitments - because there are no more payments going in.

That is where the PPF comes in. They pay 100% of your pension to those already retired, and 90% to new retirees - up to a cap of approx £32,000 a year. So the protection is very good.

That would cover scandals like Maxwell, but also firms going bust now for reasons beyond their control rather than illegal actions.

Going back to the Maxwell pensioners... people tend to remember that they lost everything. And it had a major impact on pensions trust and confidence, and uptake, in this country. But actually most got about 50% of their pension. The government provided a bail out. Partly because at the time there was a process where you could ‘opt out’ of the state pension (SERPS). You and your employer would pay less NI - and you got a lower state pension. The saved NI was supposed to go into the pension with the theory that your company pension paid out more than your lost bit of state pension. The government opted the Maxwell pensioners back in - so their state pension wasn’t reduced despite them not paying full NI. The government also raised money from financial institutions who had worked with Maxwell and gained money from his businesses. I’m afraid I don’t know how that worked legally - but the upshot was that money was clawed back.

It was a scandal and a tragedy. But I bet some of those Maxwell pensioners with their 50% actually still have better pension provision than contemporaries who had no pension at all.

That’s not to downplay what that criminal Maxwell did. But it’s so important to raise awareness that the law changed.

I’m not saying there’ll never be a scandal again, with other methods... but it’s so important that people make informed choices. It is an ongoing scandal that Maxwell’s greed has impacted people who have never worked for him, were even born after he killed himself, maybe don’t even know his name - by creating a public distrust of pensions that leads them (influenced by older generations) to not fully research their options.

Ellisandra · 14/12/2019 15:39

www.ppf.co.uk/

PPF details here for those interested. They manage £32 billion of assets.

For other types of pension, there are other protection mechanisms, see here:

www.pensionwise.gov.uk/en/protection

A pension isn’t the right choice for everyone. But no-one should not enter a company scheme because they think they’ll lose all their pension if the firm goes bust or some bastard runs off with it.

ThanksForAllTheFish · 14/12/2019 15:57

Low wages and high cost of private rent make unfeasible for a lot of people. High rent also make saving for a large mortgage deposit impossible so a lot of people have no chance of buying. It’s frustrating knowing I am paying off someone’s mortgage for them and giving them extra in top (or as in a previous place the mortgage was long paid off so I was just topping up their bank account and living in a shoddy house with one working heater, single Glazed windows, old tank style boiler, missing floorboards in the hall, subsidence that was causing the whole back wall to come away and let in horrendous drafts, mould in the walls - they refused to do any work on the place).

When you think about the amount of people struggling to buy enough food to eat and the use of food banks in recent years, the low wages, the zero hours contracts, the mass redundancies, people who can’t afford to put their heating on, people working any job they can get even if the pay isn’t enough to live on because they have no other choice etc. People in those situations simply don’t have the cash to put anything into a private pension. If they don’t have enough spare cash to eat then they don’t have enough to save in any way shape or form. If it’s any consolation to you though I don’t ever plan on retiring - I full expect to be working until the day I die. Many people my age (mid 30’s) and younger feel the same way. We know by the time we reach 70 there will be no feasible way to retire so we will just need to keep going and hope for the best .

Also with the mortgage thing. It’s really frustrating to know you won’t get a mortgage but you have been paying double the cost of a mortgage in private rent for many years. I have lived in my private rented flat for 10 years and in that time I’ve paid the equivalent of 17 years of what I would on the mortgage for this place (and that’s calculated on the full price of what the flat sold for - with no deposit to knock the price down). Never missed a payment and never been late with a payment. I wish when I was younger I had the chance to stay at home and save for a mortgage deposit but I didn’t have that choice (parents moved away when I was 18) so went right into private renting and by the time I ever save enough to get a deposit I will be too old to get a mortgage.

DrMadelineMaxwell · 14/12/2019 16:03

I'm lucky that as a teacher it's a good scheme and auto enrollment means the money has always been taken before I've been paid so I've not noticed it.i did also take out a small AVC too, to hopefully name up for the lack of contributions made during maternity leave and part time years.

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