To think school shouldn’t be charging for this?

[Indella]

Our school has a habit of expecting parental contributions for everything possible but the latest 2 things we’ve had letters about I don’t think falls under what a school can charge for.

The first one is my child has now started the compulsory school swimming lessons. These are part of the curriculum and so can’t be charged for. However parents have to pay £3 per child, per week for the transport to the swimming lessons. Is this not the school’s responsibility to fund as the swimming lessons are compulsory?

The second one is an “art and crafts day”. Letter says children will be spending the day, still in school, doing Christmas themed arts and crafts. They have asked for £12 per child for the materials. This is being held at school, in school hours and is instead of the normal lessons. I legally have to send my child to school so it’s compulsory. Letter doesn’t say voluntary contribution so I assume again we have no choice but to pay but surely the school can do arts and crafts with the children that don’t cost so much. 28 children in the class so £336 of art supplies! Sounds like they are using parents to re-stock supplies for the year.

I know they are not huge amounts but add that to the fact we paid £3 each entry to the school Christmas fair (including having to pay for the accompanying parent) and £10 each for tickets to watch the Christmas performance. Plus the never ending non-uniform days it’s really starting to add up and it feels like the school are simply using parental contributions to fund what should be covered by the school.

AIBU to think these things shouldn’t be charged for?

Have you asked them whether they've considered the environmental impact of using a coach for journeys where it's unnecessary? Having worked with children, walking that distance would be much easier than the palarva of getting them on and off the coach, leaving swim bags on there etc.

@Pinkyyy Not all schools are within walking distance of a swimming pool. Been to 5 schools not once would there have been a pool within walking distance it was always at least a 30 minute coach ride

Sadly, education budgets have been cut to the bone, so schools cannot afford extras like this. The teaching unions have been warning about this for a long time. That's the Tories (or SNP, if in Scotland) for you.

@Pipstelle when my children were at primary school there were mixed year 1/R classes. There were also mixed year 2/3 classes. That was under a Labour Government.

The mixing was redone every year depending on how many new children came in at the bottom. In my older daughter's year there were about 44 in the year. In the younger one's there were 60. It would have been nice to keep them in 2 classes all the way through the school but usually they were split over 3 classes. So for example, when she was in year 1, there was a mixed yr 1/2 class, a year 1 class and a mixed year 1/R class.

Honestly, my kids school has lost almost £1000 per child. I have no idea how they are still managing.

Education funding will be top of my mind when I vote on Thursday, and it won't be a vote for austerity.

Mixing year R and year 1 with new curriculum is bloody hard going. There's a good reason the school aren't keen to do this. We also don't know if this would actually be financially beneficial as they would have to get rid of one teacher and that's not free especially if that teacher is older. If you think you can manage the school better why not join the board of governors?

Schools have a hard enough job trying to deliver without everyone thinking they know how to do it better. Vote for a government that will fund schools properly. Support your schools not tell them you know how to do it better.

@redappleandaquamarinebow1987 I was talking about the OPs school in particular, it's a 0.4 mile walk.

That's amazing. I wasn't aware that schools are now additionally qualified to to assess the financial status and viability of parents just by looking at an address. Maybe they could let HMRC in on their method. Bet Experian are worried too.

School should be very clear that contributions for trips are voluntary, I hope this is the case. If it's not a trip, then absolutely not. I'm normally a big supporter of actual fundraising events for school but this feels more like asking for money, with nothing more than an excuse.

I can see why with the swimming but I think £12 for an arts and crafts day is ridiculous. I'd be asking why it was so much. We always pay for school plays but its usually under a £5 but adds up if you have to pay for costumes aswell . Its a shame schools are so underfunded perhaps doing some events to raise money would be beneficial and fun.

Our kids walk to the local swimming pool for lessons. It's just under a mile, taking a coach would be ridiculous. If the OP's pool is just as close, then they should absolutely walk there.
The rate of the other fees are ridiculous. £10 for Xmas play, £12 for art day? There'd be a riot if they tried to charge that at our school!

Ratherbyflying of course they can - put someone’s address in registry and it will tell you if they own or not, if they have a morgage and then you can see what they paid for the house. You can they work out income. Not exactly difficult.

Anyway differences in funding is because of free school meals - you get asked if you receive certain benefits by the school and if you do then the school gets extra money and your child gets free lunch. My children’s last school had a high percentage of free school meals and asked for hardly any contributions - plus any school trips were to free places on free public transport. There new school in the same London borough low percentage of free school meals and always asking for money and school trips by coach and expensive places - there explanation is that it’s due to parent expectations.

From most to least unreasonable:

£10 tickets for school production (including baby!) - very unreasonable
£12 for arts and crafts day - quite unreasonable, should be £5-6 max. if no artist involved
£3 for school fair entry - a little bit unreasonable, should be £1
£3 for swimming coach - reasonable, as this gets the children there and back quickly and safely
£unknown costs of having 7 classes rather than 6 - totally reasonable and in the best interests of the children

@MrsPear
That’s not accurate though. If you search my address it will tell you I own it and what I paid for it yes. It won’t tell you that since then we’ve lost 1 income due so my partner caring for our disabled child and so now our mortgage payments are just over 50% of my take home pay.

And for those saying don’t pay, it’s voluntary etc. This pic shows how it works at my school. It goes it the app, it tells you what is “due” and when it’s “due”. No mention of voluntary payment. The consent to go on the trip is also through the app. If you don’t pay you also haven’t consented so your child doesn’t take part. There is no way to consent and not pay. Maybe it’s supposed to be voluntary but at this school it’s not.

@indella you need to talk to school and request a copy of their charging and remissions policy. They have to have one! If they won't give you it write/ email chair of governors

It’s really difficult. Neither of you are unreasonable, although the school do sound like they need to cut their cloth accordingly and not be asking the parents for so much.

You shouldn’t have to fund the school perks, but the school shouldn’t be asking for so much.

The PTA May have a hardship fund if you can't afford the trips. Would you want the school not to run any trips except those the school can fully fund?

That app is not appropriate - if it is a trip within school hours it should separate out the stages of consent and payment and make it clear that payment for trips is a voluntary contribution.

However, schools have always been able to charge the full amount for out-of-hours non-curriculum related trips eg. pantomime visit in the evening.

Most schools just don’t have enough funding to adequately educate children. Personally I think money should be reallocated from other benefit/funding pots and that schools/NHS should take priority.

It’s not fair to expect parents to pay for what should be a free education. I hate getting into conversations about funding though as it always seems to end up in people thinking more tax/deductions should be made from the ‘squeezed middle’ and I find it hard to swallow.

Schools have no money. The situation is truly dire, and much worse than most parents imagine. Personally, I don't begrudge topping things up a bit in order to ensure that dd doesn't miss out, but I appreciate that the constant requests for cash might be a bit too much for some families.

If you think schools should be properly funded by the state so that they don't have to keep begging parents to contribute, please vote on Thursday for whichever candidate is most likely to kick the Tories out in your constituency. If they stay in power, the situation will not improve and we'll have collectively shafted an entire generation.

In think you need to contact either the governors of the school. Or the lea. They legally can not make you pay for activities during school time

The reality is that all schools do need more funding but to be saying that schools will see actual cuts in funding is simply not correct

Well my school has most definitely seen a cut in actual funding. We have made two people redundant and one class is being taught by a HLTA (ie NOT a teacher, just a high level TA) thus is becoming very common. In my area a HLTA costs just over half what a newly qualified teacher does.

Schools are funded X amount per child. Each child also has a deprivation score from the council based on data surrounding income etc.
secondary is funded much higher.
Sometimes a school in a relatively posh area serves a poor community and vice verse.
The school will know each child's Idaci score and also those with no recourse to public funds. They have a reasonable idea of who literally had little income and there are additional avenues to access FSMs for children those under the qualifying criterion. If paying causes a worry speak to the Head.

Schools can request a payment for extra, enrichment etc even in the school day but can't exclude a child. They can exclude for residential trips.

Look on the Dfe site for where your school spends their money but @ 80% goes on wages.

Both political parties have given incentives to schools in one area or other whilst reducing or stopping a similar amount of funding in another area.

Neither has given `new' additional funding.
However each Council also makes deduction from the funding from central Government, separate to any services schools must buy into. Our L.A. top slices £500 per child off LAC children and will not pay for school trips from remaining money which must be requested on as need basis they may or may not authorise ( Labour) Another L.A. provides funding when requested.

Not all schools are equal. Not all services you must purchase from the Council are value for money. We have some providers who charge us less than another school may be paying. We may support schools who have large reserves and poor standards. Not all schools even use the services they have bought into. Every school is different. Each Council claws back differing amounts. Each Council provides dfferent additional opportunities throughout the year. Some Councils pay EHCP funding start of the year and some are a year in arrears.

This is likely due to cuts. They are probably trying to save what they can for the more expensive items, as such as computers.

Yes. YABU. They don't have any money...haven't you been watching the news? Get the Tories out on Thursday, you might see an improvement.