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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to think this is NOT usual behaviour?

58 replies

HalyardHitch · 07/12/2019 11:02

Ds1 is three next month. He had one of the biggest meltdowns he's ever had just this morning.

He was screeching and screaming and thrashing like a trapped animal. I was trying to hold and comfort him.

He ended up laying on the floor. Wet himself. And continued just to lay in his urine screaming and screeching.

In the end I forcibly picked him up, stripped him and wiped him down. He then said "I need a poo", sat on the toilet and that was the meltdown over.

It wasn't a tantrum as he wasn't asking for anything. It was literally emotional overwhelm.

Is this normal? I don't think it's normal

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HalyardHitch · 07/12/2019 12:33

I guess I don't insist on holding him, just being near. Sometimes I hold him.

It's hard to tell what's going on. He is a very emotional/sensitive child anyway.

Events similar to this occur maybe twice a day, often more, rarely less.

What I consider to be more normal tantrums are more regular and consist of the usual things like wanting the right coloured cups, bananas, not wanting dinner, etc.

He's quite adverse to expectations being put on him. Eg behaviour in a library - he can't cope with libraries. We are getting there with supermarkets. I just can't work him out.

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Trinpy · 07/12/2019 12:39

How did the meltdown start?

My 3 year old has had frequent meltdowns like this since he was 1, though he's 3.9 now and they do seem to be getting less frequent. He had a massive one this morning because I commented on how nicely he was sitting at the table for breakfast. So he started screaming hysterically and threw his bowl of cereal across the table then tried to bite me. Repeatedly. DH put him in his calm down space (an area where he's contained but there's nothing breakable) and he eventually calmed down by himself. I have found that giving them some space to calm down works best, although it does go against your instincts as a parent! I have ASD and when I have a meltdown I know anyone trying to talk to me or touch me just makes me worse, I guess because it's more sensory input at a time when I've already had more than I can cope with. So I'm assuming it's similar for small children.

EvaHarknessRose · 07/12/2019 12:40

Someone I know with ASD was telling me about heightened interoception (awareness of internal physical states/feedback) being really overwhelming for him.

merryhouse · 07/12/2019 13:16

When I first read this it occurred to me that once you took over and cleaned him up - treated him as if he were a baby again - he managed to break out of it.

Then you talked about his not coping with expectations of behaviour.

You've also said that he has physical developmental delay, which suggests that it's highly likely people will expect things that he simply can't do.

Does this all make sense? (I have no idea how to deal with it, mind)

Blacksackunderthetreesfreeze · 07/12/2019 13:26

Doesn’t sound that way out, although a bit extreme. It’s the fact you say they happen regularly that makes me think it’s out of the normal way of things. So I’d definitely speak to someone.

BlankTimes · 07/12/2019 14:06

Does he react to sensory stimuli? Have a read through this booklet and see if anything sounds like his pattern of behaviour.
www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?v=201507131117

He's quite adverse to expectations being put on him. Eg behaviour in a library - he can't cope with libraries. We are getting there with supermarkets. I just can't work him out

Look up PDA strategies and see if anything helps.

Also for him being averse to expectations, does he really understand what's happening and why? Some kids can't go with the flow, they don't understand what they are supposed to be doing and are literally 'lost' they get overwhelmed with frustration then melt down.

Can you explain things in small stages as it's happening using now, next and then descriptions. See if it helps, if so, persevere.
Arrive in the supermarket carpark, quick chat about holding hands, don't run off. Let him know what's happening,
(now)We choose a trolley
(next)We go into the supermarket.
(then)We stay beside/hold onto/sit in our trolley.

Get inside supermarket,

(now) praise for being in/on/near the trolley.
(next) We need to collect the food we choose from the shelves.Reinforce how good quiet behaviour makes this a nice experience for everyone.
(then) when we have everything we need in our trolley, we need to go to the checkout and pay.

If you detail his excursion like that, he should be more aware of what's going on and why at every point in it. It might take a few trips until he fully understands his role in the proceedings.

Haworthia · 07/12/2019 14:14

I wonder if he does have asd but then I don't see his "normal behaviour" (ie when he's not having meltdowns) as asd. He is giving, sensitive to others, social, has two way conversation, follows some social norms (although its quirky compared to his friends

I totally understand how you feel.

Some autistic children don’t present in obvious ways and I spent two solid years wondering whether my speech delayed boy was autistic. There were no obvious red flags with him... he was just different to his peers in a way that was difficult to define. He’s never lined up toys or anything like that, he’s loving and social (but awkwardly social, I guess), and it only became more obvious after he turned four.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, a child can still be on the spectrum without ticking lots of ASD boxes. Sometimes it is more subtle.

HalyardHitch · 07/12/2019 14:18

@BlankTimes thank you for the link. He seems to be a really weird interesting mix of being both over and under sensitive in different areas.

I naturally have to break everything down. Eg, getting dressed and toileting. Pull your pants down, now climb on the steps, etc....and after, now we pull our pants up, now trousers. Now pull up your sleeves, stand on the step, get a little bit of soap.... I feel partly bossy and partly like a stuck record Confused Grin even then, some steps he will resist or refuse to do. I feel that is normal but also extreme normal. But just combined with everything else it's really draining

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LeekMunchingSheepShagger · 07/12/2019 14:26

If there’s a chance the meltdowns are related to sensory overload/autism, the best way to deal with them is to leave him alone as much as possible. Turn off the lights or close the curtains. Turn off any noise (tv or radio etc), don’t touch him and don’t talk to him.

Dontdisturbmenow · 07/12/2019 14:27

Sounds like my DS! He had anger breakdowns like this although not every day. Some times were worse than others, before Xmas did tend to be a bad time, when more tired.

He is now a 17yo gentle, doing extremely well in his A levels. His tantrums stopped when he was about 5 and he became the most gentle boy. He was actually elected to be the kid to go and break fights as he never got into any arguments, let alone fights and knew what to say and do.

His anger kicked in again when he was about 12, thanks to hormones, although always at home. They stopped at about 14.

Heartofglass12345 · 07/12/2019 14:32

He sounds very similar to my son who has just been diagnosed with ASD at age 6. I also suspect he has PDA as he responds really badly to demands a lot of the time, sometimes even when there's something good at the end of it (eg getting dressed or going to the toilet before going somewhere he want to go)
Keep an eye on it and if you have concerns visit your GP and ask for a referral to CAHMS

We are in South Wales and they were quick with his initial appointment but he had to wait a year to see a neurodevelopmental specialist

HalyardHitch · 07/12/2019 14:43

@Heartofglass12345 I do wonder. He's just so volatile. He doesn't like being touched, won't get dressed even to go and see a friend or something. He's very vocal at the slightest level of discomfort- either a slightly sore throat or a tiny hunger pang (eg he hasn't eaten for 90 minutes). He will scream and cry. I still feel they aren't tantrums though.

I saw the gp. She basically shrugged it off because he's under the paediatrician for his dietary issues. She literally doesn't want to know.

It puzzles me that school don't see the behaviour that we see

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BlankTimes · 07/12/2019 17:32

He seems to be a really weird interesting mix of being both over and under sensitive in different areas.
That's absolutely common.

It puzzles me that school don't see the behaviour that we see
That's really common as well, look up 'masking' what happens is the child is academically okay so school aren't concerned. Behaviourally the child's used to school routines so just jogs along and doesn't act up there in any noticeable way. Many children,mine included could have been helped years earlier but because they held it together at school, school denied there was anything wrong and blamed poor/helicopter parenting.

BUT, and this is the BUT that school don't see and rarely acknowledge, all day the child is like a bottle of fizzy pop and everything that irritates them is like shaking the bottle once, then once more for every irritation. At hometime, the child knows home and safety is near and sometimes coming out of school or coming into the house is a point where they can't hold it in any longer and they have to explode because that's where they are loved and feel safe enough to do it.

He's young yet, but the NHS diagnostic process is very slow, an assessment for example for autism takes between 18 months to 2 years, some other conditions aren't even assessed until a child is older, so keep an eye on him and have an open mind and push for an assessment if you think he's very different to his peers.

Most schools although they should provide interventions based on a child's needs tend not to do so due to funding and a diagnosis can in some instances unlock that funding.

If he's having sensory issues that disrupt his day, then try and refer to a Paediatric Sensory OT Occupational therapist. The NHS used to have some, check in your area, if not you may find a few private sessions identify his needs and suggest interventions.

The whole question of having a child assessed should be based on how much that child is affected by different things and in turn how much of that affects their daily life.
You will find that your concern will be minimised by friends family teachers and often the GP, "all kids his age do that" but if you feel strongly enough that his behaviour is definitely different to his peers to a very strong degree, then do take a list of all his differences to your GP or see a different one and ask for a paediatric assessment. As school aren't helpful right now because they "don't see" anything, if SENCO is approachable you could ask her opinion, if not, you'll just have to be firm but persistent with the GP and state which things affect him to a much greater degree than his peers.

Also, many kids with additional needs appear emotionally a lot younger than their chronological age, two thirds is a rough rule-of-thumb, so you may find school notices that.

Hang in there, keep observing, keep reading about different conditions and see if they apply to your son in a major way, then you can decide whether to push for an assessment. We all have traits of many conditions, say a sensory one is irritated by seams in socks, if someone's irritated for a few minutes then forgets, it's not noteworthy, but if someone can't bear the feel of it to the extent that they feel it's like having their toes sawn off and they have to remove their socks or they'll scream the place down, then yeah, that's a strong reaction and definitely needs noting to tell the paed, OT or whoever.

Heartofglass12345 · 08/12/2019 13:29

If he's under a paediatrician I would mention it to them at your next visit. If you feel they aren't just tantrums then you need to get the ball rolling as it takes a long time. If he needs extra support as he gets older then hopefully he will be able to get it. My son is good in school and acts absolutely crazy when he gets home, not always in a bad way he is just really hyperactive. I'm noticing as he's getting older that he's not maturing in the way we would expect him to (eg he isn't much better than he was a couple of years ago)
Just try and support him through them and try talking to him afterwards about what upset him so you could maybe try and do things differently another time, but it will be hard as he's so young.

Emeeno1 · 08/12/2019 13:43

As with other posters our three year old is also more likely to get distressed or emotional and have a meltdown when he really needs a poo. No idea why but if he is beginning to lose it that is now the first thing we ask him!

jaseyraex · 08/12/2019 13:52

Could you get in touch with your health visitor rather than GP and discuss the concerns with them? It was my health visitor that referred us for the ASD assessment, she was much more helpful than the GP ever was!

If you are concerned it might be ASD then you need to get the ball rolling. Its helpful to write down any and all concerns you have, anything that you think is not quite "normal". I know some people say the process takes a long time but it really depends where you live and pre school waiting lists tend to be shorter than school age so don't wait about. My DS was just over 3 when referred, seen for initial appointment about 12 weeks later and we had the assessment and diagnosis complete within a year. Diagnosed with Aspergers just after his 4th birthday. He starts school next year and the diagnosis has really helped with getting support in place for that.

My only advice in the meantime is do your best to find the trigger points for these meltdowns, look out for the signs that he is about to go from slightly overwhelmed to full on meltdown. Its bloody hard and even when you start noticing those ques, you won't manage every time and that's okay. Be kind to yourself about it too. Close curtains or turn off lights, turn off tv or any noise, move rooms if you can. I made a sensory corner in DS's room that has helped. If he's having a meltdown I try and carry him through to his room then leave him to calm down but sit outside his door.

Good luck Flowers

HalyardHitch · 08/12/2019 14:21

I'll attempt with the hv. That's a good idea. He was a "cause for concern " at his 12m and 2y checks with the hv. Particularly with his physical, language and ability to soothe himself (emotional). I need to get him weighed and measured in Jan at the clinic anyway and send those measurements to the paediatrician so I'll see if I can get that done as a home visit

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HalyardHitch · 08/12/2019 14:22

I love the idea of a sensory corner. I'll speak to dh and see if we can come up with something practical with that - we also have a one year old to consider (who funnily enough, we have zero worries about and is very very different to his brother)

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HorridHamble · 08/12/2019 14:36

Some great advice on here. Just to add though, both my children had extreme tantrums at aged 3. I was very concerned but it appears to have been some sort of developmental thing as they stopped of their own accord after several months. Three and five years on, the tantrums have never returned.

I was terrified that I couldn’t comfort them whilst they were in the throes, but always stayed close and offered comfort and reassurance. After a while, they would calm down and ask for a cuddle. I think they felt scared at being so out of control, but were too young to articulate it.

Not saying this is what’s happening with your DS but this was my experience. Hope you get support and things get easier for you both.

HorridHamble · 08/12/2019 14:37

Shouldn’t have used the word ‘tantrum’ - I meant meltdown.

Lex234 · 08/12/2019 14:50

I just wanted to reach out to you because 10 years ago I could have written your post. Not word for word, but in essence my eldest was an angel in school, but I had meltdowns, screaming fits and many difficulties that you described. No one believed me. It took until DS was 9 and for him to become selectively mute in school until someone took notice. I have known since he was 18 months old he has ASD. I am not diagnosing your child, I am just saying my experience is similar.

I just wanted to tell you, as I wish someone had told me, you are doing a FANTASTIC job, you know your son best and that I believe you. It will get easier over time. You will learn to recognise triggers, try quite a rigid, structured routine for him and beware of situations where there is high sensory stimuli. This would fit in with the reluctance to get dressed, it may feel physically uncomfortable for him-we had a terrible time trying to get socks DS would tolerate. I have found the best way over the years is to accept DS's quirks and accomodate as much as I can-you mentioned you can't work him out. Sometimes the things DS does don't make sense immediately to me either. It will be trial and error, but you will get there I promise Smile

starfishmummy · 08/12/2019 15:03

Call me confused...but

"Ds1 is three next month"

"It puzzles me that school don't see the behaviour that we see"

Hes at school already??

HalyardHitch · 08/12/2019 16:22

@starfishmummy sorry, he's at a preschool/school type thing. It's a Montessori and they mix the children from age 2-7. We just call it school. I said it without thinking

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HalyardHitch · 08/12/2019 16:24

He started there at 2y3m. In essence so that I could have a break from him - I also have another boy who is 12 months younger. He will be starting once he turns two next month

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DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou · 08/12/2019 16:24

I have 3 boys and the first two did this.

I HATE the age 3.

And I'm dreading it with DS3, but we'll get through it.

The eldest are now 13 and 8 and perfectly normal.

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