Is my boss a scammer?

[teddysgeamed]

Nc as could be outing

I’ve worked at the same company for 10 years this January. Around 4 years ago, the 2 managers (there’s 15 staff,2 managers) came up with a scheme. As far as I’m aware the way it works is £50 is automatically deducted from your wages each month, put into a pot of £700 and the winner is chosen at random. One staff member doesn’t take part anymore as she started a relationship with one of the managers. So there’s essentially a 1 in 14 chance of winning it.
Problem is, in the past 4 years it’s been running I’ve won once!! Am I being unreasonable for saying I no longer want to play this game? I’ve worked out I’ve paid over £2400 into this scheme and only gained £700. But my manager thinks IABU
His reasons are
A) it would take 3 months to change payroll
B) it wouldn’t be fair on everyone else?!
I’m so done with it now, I could do with an extra £50 this month after Xmas. I feel like he’s taking the piss. It’s not written in my contract!
Am I crazy for thinking there could be something sinister going on

It's madness having 50 quid a month go out for this. There would be no way I'd have started doing this.

It's not up to your manager if you do this or not. Contact payroll yourself, before the cutoff date and tell them you are stopping this (do this in writing). Ensure they come back to you in writing to say the change has been made.

Three months to change this? That's bullshit.

This is CRAZY! How on earth did you all sleepwalk into doing this and let it go on so long? I’d be very surprised if this is the only weird thing happening in your workplace!

So nooone sees them pull it out of a hat or whatever? Dodgy!

wow crazy, insist immediately or threaten them with action.

You've been allowing this for FOUR years, absolutely crazy.

If his is for real, why have you not called HR and payroll sooner to stop this? Contact payroll Monday, not your manager. Advise them it stops from your salary immediately. Ask to see a record of how the winner is chosen and announced etc. If anyone refuses you (ie your manager to date), advise them this is an unlawful deduction of wages and you can take this further to a tribunal. I would also call ACAS.

Which 4 numpties think the OP is being unreasonable? Come on here & explain yourselves 😆

Not me, @Pretty - but I think the OP is v unreasonable for letting it go on so long!

Ask him what the chances are of winning and why haven't you won as much as everyone else.

No, don't do that. It would display a lack of understanding of probability.

The fact that there’s only 15 staff makes it even more ridiculous that payroll changes would take three months. I worked in an office of 250 and it took one month. A deadline date for changes was published each month.

@SerenDippitty

Exactly. I had an issue I had to get dealt with by payroll this week that will be reflected in Decembers pay. One phone call for 10 minutes and it was sorted. If a company with over 5000 employees can do it, a small business can certainly do it.

Where I used to work we had a staff lottery where everyone who opted in paid £1 a week (a few hundred staff) then 3 winners were drawn with a 1st 2nd and 3rd prize each month.

However, because of gambling laws the prize had to be paid in vouchers not cash - I'm really not sure this is legal op.

What you do with your pay is your decision to make, if you don't want to contribute to a (possibly illegal) works lottery that is your decision and nobody else's. Cancel your participation in the lottery in writing (or by e-mail etc) so you have evidence it is done, from the date of the correspondence.

Any money taken from your pay after that date, unless the cut off date for your next pay had already passed, is unlawfully taken and should be returned to you. You choose what you get to do with your money, the money does not belong to your boss, it is yours.

Also, it should not take 3 months to change payroll. Everywhere I have worked or know abouts payroll, where pay is done monthly, is changeable every month. How can overtime/expenses/tax etc be changed every month but nothing else? There is something suspicious here in my view.

Oh, and I used to work for a massive pharmaceutical company, in the IT department. Finance used to have to bring huge reels of tape up to us to run a few days before pay day to put everything through, the cut off for overtime, bonus, other changes was only a day or two before then, so if a company can manage changes for possibility thousands of employees every month a small company should be able to manage.

Unless someone in finance is in cahoots with management?

This might be most batshit crazy job thing I've ever heard!! I wouldn't have even accepted a job that thought this was reasonable to ask of its employees. It sounds super dodgy! I'd start looking for a new job and dob them in to HMRC as I bet they are fiddling other things too.

Even if it did take 3 months to correct your wages, he could give you your £50 back in cash. Cheeky bastards. I don't know the law but it definitely sounds dodgy.

Finance used to have to bring huge reels of tape up to us to run

Tape? Wow that's going back a bit (not being rude). Must admit, I can remember loading tape though. Just the click of mouse now and off it goes.

Mathematically, I don't get it.

14 people put in £50 and there is a chance you will win £700 - i.e all of it.

If you keep playing it long enough, you should win back what you have put in.

If you do win something, then it would make sense to stop playing because then you are 'up'.

Lotteries work because lots of people put in a small amount and there is a very big prize. You aren't losing much relative to the potential pot that's out there - although the chances of winning are 1 in 45 million.

In this game, you only need to play 14 times to get your cash back. In theory.

Why are you playing it? Surely you'd be better off just keeping the money.

I cannot believe there are any qualified finance staff in this company. Surely if there are they should be ashamed

You mean to say you have had about £2,400 taken from your wages over 4 years and allowed it to happen without taking it further until now?

Even my 6 year old would have the sense to know that this is absolutely nuts.

this is dodgy as hell OP... get yourself out of it asap.

Sounds dodgy to me, your manager knows once you come out the scheme others will do the same.

I'm not convinced this is legal
^this - seek legal advice and then challenge. If you can spare £50 you'd be much better off putting it into a pension.

If I'm remembering my schhol maths correctly, then thinking about this from a statistics point of view, the probability of winning is 1 in 14 so you could expect to win once ever 14 weeks. In 4 years, everyone can expect to have won between 3 and 4 times. If my maths is right statisitcs was never my strongest suit, then the fact you have only won once and someone else 7 times doesn't sound too way out so there is probably nothing 'dodgy' going on in terms of the way the lottery is being drawn.

However, the scheme is not transparent as you have no idea how the winner is chosen - balls/names drawn out of a hat, computer program... Even if I agreed to be in the draw, I wouldn't be happy about this. It sounds as though you don't have a choice and it is automatically deducted which, I would hope is wrong.

In such a small company, and such a large amount of money to win each month, surely there is some kind of chat between you all about who's won?? "Ohhh Bob won this month"... "oh Cheryl well done for winning, drinks on you yeah? Lolz babe."
I don't know office chat.

You not get suspicious??
We need answers to so many questions

I wonder what the probability is of the OP returning......