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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is my boss a scammer?

104 replies

teddysgeamed · 06/12/2019 17:04

Nc as could be outing

I’ve worked at the same company for 10 years this January. Around 4 years ago, the 2 managers (there’s 15 staff,2 managers) came up with a scheme. As far as I’m aware the way it works is £50 is automatically deducted from your wages each month, put into a pot of £700 and the winner is chosen at random. One staff member doesn’t take part anymore as she started a relationship with one of the managers. So there’s essentially a 1 in 14 chance of winning it.
Problem is, in the past 4 years it’s been running I’ve won once!! Am I being unreasonable for saying I no longer want to play this game? I’ve worked out I’ve paid over £2400 into this scheme and only gained £700. But my manager thinks IABU
His reasons are
A) it would take 3 months to change payroll
B) it wouldn’t be fair on everyone else?!
I’m so done with it now, I could do with an extra £50 this month after Xmas. I feel like he’s taking the piss. It’s not written in my contract!
Am I crazy for thinking there could be something sinister going on

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 06/12/2019 17:28

What does it matter whether it’s from net or gross pay? It’s theft.

PBo83 · 06/12/2019 17:30

What does it matter whether it’s from net or gross pay? It’s theft.

Because if it's being taken out of gross and paid net then it's a tax issue

PettyContractor · 06/12/2019 17:31

The prize money will go down if you quit, but the chances of winning each time will go up in exact proportion, so the "expected return" will remain exactly the same. (The "expected return" is the amount of the prize multiplied by the probability of winning it, and is always the same no matter how many participate, in a fair lottery with zero running costs.)

handbagsatdawn33 · 06/12/2019 17:33

If OP agreed to the deduction, it's not unauthorised.

Authority can be be withdrawn at any time - now is a good time.
It would take about a minute to make the payroll amendment.

misspiggy19 · 06/12/2019 17:33

Why would anyone agree to having £50 a month taken from their wages for an office lottery?

SheChoseDown · 06/12/2019 17:33

This is fucking insane.
Please please demand he stops.

Brimful · 06/12/2019 17:34

It's insane that you don't know how the winner is drawn, too.

Fucking hell, it's so dodgy!

Original poster
teddysgeamed · 06/12/2019 17:35

It
Comes out my net wages

OP posts:
Greenmay · 06/12/2019 17:35

No way would I sign up for this & seems a way to build resentment in a company, not at least as appear to be pressured into taking part & staying in scheme. Its your money & your choice how to spend it.

Why would it take 3 months to change as other payroll changes don't take that long?

countdowntochristmas · 06/12/2019 17:38

Vote or not if you don't want to take part you don't take part . Even pension deductions people opt out if they want to . The only deductions allowed are tax insurance obviously and attachment of earnings such as council tax . No say no and that's a lie about 3 months . If they drag heels send a email giving formal notice so it's in writing . If you do it now enough time to be sorted for month end payroll .

PleasantVille · 06/12/2019 17:38

I've read some odd things on here but this is up there with the oddest.

Of course you can cancel a non statutory deduction from your salary and saying it would take 3 months has got to be a lie.

Say in writing that you no longer authorise it and confirm that. You will be taking advice from ACAS

GhostHoward · 06/12/2019 17:39

That's ridiculous!! Don't do it...and suggest to your colleagues that they opt out as well.

TheSilveryPussycat · 06/12/2019 17:42

Is the £50 before or after tax? Would HMRC have something to say?

Mad scheme either way.

mcmooberry · 06/12/2019 17:43

£50 !! Yikes and double yikes!! £10 would be one thing but £50!!!!! Insane and I would want to know exactly how the draw was being done to make sure it was fair. Withdraw immediately!! They are probably relying on you waiting to win again and not wanting to pull out until then.

FilledSoda · 06/12/2019 17:44

What do HR say ?

bobsyourauntie · 06/12/2019 17:47

OP, I do payroll and can make changes at the click of a mouse. It would not take 3 months to change it, unless he means that you have to give 3 months notice, but that would only be applicable if you signed an agreement for this draw when you started doing it.

Contact the payroll department yourself and advise that you withdraw permission for this to be taken from your wages.

Save the £50 a month , if you had done that so far you would have had £2400 rather than the £700 that you won. Depending on who you bank with, some accounts pay a decent rate of interest on Regular Savings.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 06/12/2019 17:47

Gosh! You aren't sure how it's drawn either? Dodgy as hell.

Schoolchoicesucks · 06/12/2019 17:47

Of course it doesn't take 3 months to change payroll. Would you have to wait 3 months to get paid for the first time? Or continue getting paid 3 months after leaving?

Changing a week before payday could be tricky, but should still be sorted for the next month.

I think they are on very dodgy ground in running an unauthorised draw.

And incredibly dodgy ground in pressuring staff to join/remain in it.

If any staff had been at close to minimum wage thresholds, the deduction would be taking them below it!

Don't back down OP.

PrettyShiningPeople · 06/12/2019 17:49

Wow, the most unanimous YANBU I have ever seen!
Definitely not a legitimate thing for your managers to be doing, I wouldn’t agree to it either.

Is the draw done in public and are you reassured everyone’s names are in there?
It sounds really suspicious if there are only 14 people & you’ve won once in 4 years.

Original poster
teddysgeamed · 06/12/2019 17:49

I don’t know about the tax, but I do know it shown as a deduction on my payslip

OP posts:
bobsyourauntie · 06/12/2019 17:49

Also, forgot to say, that if they are doing a draw, then it should be done in public, with as many staff as possible , using a random number generator. There should be no secrecy at all over how the winner is decided.

KittensInABasket · 06/12/2019 17:51

I cannot actually believe that one person is ok with this, let alone 14 people. How had this not massively kicked off in the last four years? It's illegal!

ZorbaTheHoarder · 06/12/2019 17:51

I would not be at all happy about this!
How can the boss not explain how the winner is chosen?
Does he happen to be in another relationship with the person who has won five times?

I really think you should make much more of a fuss about this!

Good luck - don't put up with it any longer!

ShetlandWife · 06/12/2019 17:52

101% of people think you are not unreasonable, so that must be right!

skeemee · 06/12/2019 17:55

We used to run a similar scheme way back in the 1980s in my first job (it was called a menage). However, it was more like £10 per month, and ran for x number of months depending on the number of people in it. All names put in a hat, and once your name was pulled out, you get that months winnings, but your name isn't included again until everyone has "won". Therefore, no winners or losers, it was just a wee bit fun and you always got out what you had put in.

I would be coming out of your scheme OP, how come the "lucky" person is winning all the time? I would be extremely suspicious.

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