A smoking one

[RubberUnicorn]

Need some brutally honest opinions please, I will try to keep this brief -
DH and I both used to smoke. I quit cold turkey when I found out I was pregnant. This was 2017.

Our first baby DS was stillborn at 38 weeks (relevant).
We went on to have DD born 2018 happy and healthy and I am now expecting our second son, due March 2020.

DH has never quit smoking the whole time.
I have told him about the risks of "third hand" smoke, ie he needs to wash, brush teeth change clothes etc before being anywhere near DD and has to stay away for at least half an hour.

I told him that if he doesn't do this it increases her chance of SIDS quite dramatically and quite frankly that is not a risk I am willing to take.

He seemed to be on board, even cried when I told him. This was a year or so ago.

Fast forward to now, he's still smoking (does it when he's at work, in his van, etc) doesn't do it at home but hasn't been bothering to change his clothes or shower when he gets home. It's only recently I've smelt it on him a couple of times and he's admitted he'd never stopped in the first place (I thought he had because he's got a vape pen and thought he had weaned off the fags).
So I am obviously furious that he's been exposing DD to the filth that he puts into his body and equally annoyed that he had no intention of stopping.
I asked him yesterday if he was also aware that if I am exposed to the residues it can increase the risk of birth deformities and even stillbirth for our unborn child. He wasn't.

It's not just the fact that he's unwilling to quit - I know I can't make him, it's just his whole "I don't give a shit, I want to do it so I will" attitude. He's completely arrogant, wont apologise or seemingly accept that what he has done/is doing could potentially be so damaging to our family, it's really upset me and I'm not even sure I want him around me or DD right now.

He's said he will start having showers, washing his clothes straightaway etc but I don't know whether I should give him the chance to fuck it up again - he said he'd do all that over a year ago and he hasn't.

Maybe I'm overly paranoid, maybe everything will be fine but the thought of losing another baby, whether it be DD or DS (or both!!) is just so unbelievably crushing. Why should he be allowed to not take a bit of responsibility for his actions?

So, AIBU to have this view and to be fuming mad and questioning our marriage? Or am I overreacting?
Interested to hear what others think/would do.

The DNA damage was in a study done on bits of baby rats in a dish and no mention is made of quantities of toxins detected. The dose makes the poison.
Typical tobacco control half truths.

Is that in relation to the BMJ study @Phud

YABU as long as he doesn't go near baby after a cig. The world has gone bloody crazy.
How many nursery workers do you think do this.
I can assure you they don't take tooth brushes into work and many don't even wash hands.
They may wear a coat outside when it's cold though.

As for research well it's usually wise to look at who is conducting the research and who is paying them.

OP, if this is a deal breaker you'll have to leave him then, you can't force someone to stop smoking, just because your grumpy you don't anymore. They say the worst anti smokers are those who gave up.

Well done by the way, it's not easy to stop. But you do need to unclench a bit.

With respect @Drabarni they said the same thing about cigarettes in the 30s-50s when Drs advised smoking was good for your health.

If early research suggests it is a danger to my children then I don't believe I am unreasonable to take precautions, especially considering the circumstances.

Under the very sad circumstances I think it's quite cruel of him to continue smoking, I completely understand why you are upset OP. Perhaps the risk is minimal, but after losing a child I think many of us would become hyper vigilant.

And I'm not grumpy because I don't smoke anymore, I'm quite happy that I gave up and I'm now able to breathe and exercise properly without feeling as though I'm going to keel over.

If third hand smoke posed any problem to children we'd know about it by now, thank God there is no risk.
Are you never going to use a nursery or childminder. Do you think your child is never going to come into contact with real smoke first hand?
What do you propose to do about all the other harmful chemicals your child will come in contact with. There are some awful things in food but most people just eat it anyway.
Is your child never going to have McDonalds, the chemicals in those are unbelievable as is most food not cooked from scratch.

I'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid @Drabarni - how long did it take for medical professionals to acknowledge the dangers of cigarettes in the first place?
Just because a solid link is not yet established doesn't mean that there isn't one. That's the whole point of medical research, isn't it? To find out if things are harmful?

I understand of course that there are harmful chemicals in the world but that's not really what this is about. I'm asking if my DH is unreasonable (or I am) to have the view points we do on him still smoking. Something which is a choice, something which is avoidable.

As for McDonald's, no, she's not had one so far and I don't plan on taking her any time soon. Does that make me "mad" too?

Yes and YABU, that's what this board is for.

OP AIBU

Poster YABU

OP, no I'm not.

ffs.

I was just putting forward my side and answering your questions/statements @Drabarni maybe the articles above aren't worth the paper they're written on but I felt they were worth considering.

Also I haven't actually denied that I am being unreasonable - if I'm not supposed to answer questions or comments then what is the point of it being a discussion board? Is that not what the board is for?

As someone else has already said, if you’re worried about 2nd /3rd hand smoke, I seriously hope you never go anywhere near cities/main roads. I promise you you’ll be breathing in a ton more shite doing that than going near someone who recently had a cigarette.

I have also checked who funded the research above (BMJ) if it's of any interest:

"Funding This work was supported by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute and the National Institute on Drug Abuse at the US National Institutes of Health, and Department of Health and Human Services.

This work was also supported by the California Consortium on Thirdhand Smoke, California Tobacco-Related Disease Research Programme, and the California Tobacco-Related Disease Research Programme for ‘Certifying Smoke-Free Used Cars: Effects on Value and Consumer Behaviour’.

Luckily we live in a village @CaptainButtock but I don't deny that you are correct, I imagine the air pollution in big cities is much worse than ours here.

I feel like this is going off topic slightly though, I'm not talking about eradicating every single air pollutant, I know that's not feasible. I'm talking about the things that can be prevented, that's all.

The problem is, OP, he doesn’t think the risk is as high as you think it is.

Never ceases to amaze me how ‘head in the sand’ people are about air quality/pollutants.
Estimates are you are breathing in the equivalent of 40 fags worth of toxins for ONE DAY in London (Oxford is 60 )
And yet I see people jogging in London who probably think they’re being terrifically healthy! And they would be appalled at the thought of smoking 40 fags a day.
All very odd. ‘Cognitive dissonance’ I believe it’s called.

That may well be the problem, he doesn't seem willing to have a proper sit down conversation about it though, he just gets defensive and shouts, which comes across as quite selfish.

If I was doing something that he believed was detrimental to our children, I'd like to think I'd at least be willing to listen.

That's interesting @CaptainButtock - I don't live in London though, we live in the countryside in the midlands.

I think there are two separate issues here. One is the danger of tobacco residue to the fetus or baby.
The other is your DH’s attitude to you.
He knows how you feel. He has seen you grieve your child. He knows how extremely anxious you are to avoid a recurrence, and to do everything in your power to reduce the risks to your new baby.
But he apparently doesn’t give a shit.
He can callously ignore how upset you are. His cigarettes mean more to him than either you or his children.
I’d ask yourself some tough questions about whether you want to stay with a man who shows no sign of loving you or caring about you. Or your DC.

Thank you @Babdoc I think you've hit the nail on the head perfectly as to how I feel about the situation.

Sorry, but I think YABU.

As someone else has already said, if you’re worried about 2nd /3rd hand smoke, I seriously hope you never go anywhere near cities/main roads. I promise you you’ll be breathing in a ton more shite doing that than going near someone who recently had a cigarette.

I agree with this. I can understand your understandable concern, but I think people can often get fixated on a single fairly low risk factor and confuse it with a sure fire cause for SIDS. The majority of SIDS cases now are linked to children sleeping on or with adults who are under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Smoking in the house wouldn’t be good, but would still be very unlikely to cause certain death. The risks from second hand smoke from clothes are fairly minuscule especially as a pp pointed out compared to exhaust fumes at pram height.

He should absolutely give up smoking as a father alone

How difficult would it be to just stick on a nicotine patch instead of smoking? He wouldn’t even have to deal with cravings. But no - he’s not prepared to do something so simple for his wife’s happiness and peace of mind.
There’s also the 50% chance that his smoking habit will kill him. Leaving his wife a widow and his child fatherless. Stupid and selfish is my verdict, I’m afraid.