Flu nasal spray or not for Children.

[AG29]

Don’t want to then this into a debate. DC’s school are doing them early next week. Seems a bit late to be doing them but anyway. A lot of their peers are not having it which is of course the parents choice.

I am hearing conflicting things. Do your children have it or not? I don’t have much time now to do thorough research on it.

I have opted in at the moment but unsure..

Anyone, healthy or otherwise, can die from flu.

Are you seriously risking your child’s health because the vaccine contains animal products?

A friend of a friend's 10yo daughter is currently in hospital with flu and receiving palliative care as she cannot fight it off, she is very likely going to die.

The local paper has reported this evening that a previously healthy 5yo girl is in hospital (same hospital as the 10yo) and is going to die, her heart stopped after she contracted flu and the lack of oxygen has damaged her brain.

The flu vaccine is offered for a reason.

I don’t. I do most vaccines. I don’t think we know long term what vaccinating every year against the flu does. It isn’t particularly effective. I don’t agree with vaccinating one group (the young) to protect the elderly who can choose to vaccinate themselves. If it was more effective I might consider it but I am not convinced. There is an increasing theory in the animal world that over vaccination of dogs and cats is detrimental to health and contributes to allergies and autoimmunity. It amazes me this same conversation hasn’t happened in relation to our children.

I wasn’t too bothered if I’m honest, didn’t really cross my mind when the kids were a bit younger.

Then my 3 year old boy got flu and fuck my life it was horrendous! We had ambulances out at 3am I was carrying him t the toilet at one point he was unresponsive and blue lighted. He’s now left with vocal chord damage and as much as love his gorgeous little husky voice I get them all vaccinated every goddam year now!!

I'm an entirely fit and healthy adult and I got flu two years ago and ended up in resus. It took me out for a good two months and I wasn't right for ages after that. The whole family gets vaccinated now - flu can be bloody serious and there's a reason we're offered the inoculation.

I don’t think we know long term what vaccinating every year against the flu does.

Lowers the transmission rate and stops people from catching flu.

It isn’t particularly effective

There are many strains of flu and the vaccine usually covers the most commonly circulating strain(s) however they can change between the vaccine being developed and then rolled out and different strains can appear during the season. Saying that, it can still offer some protection against these other strains and result in a much milder case of flu than the person would have had if they hadn't had any vaccine at all. It is usually 40-60% effective, 40-60% protection is better than 0% protection.

I don’t agree with vaccinating one group (the young) to protect the elderly who can choose to vaccinate themselves

Children being offered the flu vaccine has nothing to do with protecting elderly people. Children are offered it as they are vulnerable to flu, recent strains have been more serious in young people and children, and - as a group - healthy children are the most likely to be hospitalised due to contracting flu.

There is an increasing theory in the animal world that over vaccination of dogs and cats is detrimental to health and contributes to allergies and autoimmunity. It amazes me this same conversation hasn’t happened in relation to our children.

There has been a lot of research into the safety of vaccines, no links have yet been found. If the links existed then there would have been at least a hint of them before now.

I don’t think we know long term what vaccinating every year against the flu does

Also the flu vaccine has been available since the 1940s. If it was dangerous or had long term side effects, we would know it by now.

In our house, everyone has it every year

I would definitely let them have it. Flu is not nice, and there is a particularly horrible strain likely to happen this winter (they have already had it in Oz). I wish secondary school kids were given it too. I'm probably going to pay for my teenagers to have it. I've already had mine. The kids at school dont even have to have an injection, just a couple of puffs up each nostril. It's a no-brainer to me.

I would say yes to the flu jab for sure! And it's not too late this year, in my area (South London hospital) we haven't had many flu presentations yet so the peak is yet to hit!

Yes I think I is later than usual but still important to do it. We had awful flu last year and both parents (not vaccinated) were in bed for two weeks. Fever, aches pains, took a good month to feel right again. My boys were thankfully were vaccinated and it didn't touch them at all. I can see why they vaccinate and how if you're vulnerable, it can hopitalise you and even kill.

The issue of over vaccination of cats and dogs is not remotely comparable to yearly vaccination of people.

Dogs and to a lesser extent cats, were vaccinated annually, for virus/disease that manufacturers KNEW their vaccines would provide long term/life time cover for.

Due to consumer and veterinary pressure, they have now amended this to 3 yearly for the core vaccines and annual for leptospirosis (because lepto vaccines actually dont even last 12 months!).

Vaccines are also a huge earner for vets, they are a means of getting the client in annually with their pet and keeping in touch with their client base.

There was 20 years ago, very little incentive for either vets or vaccine manufacturers to actually test how long vaccines provide cover for in domestic pets, all proving vaccines last longer than a year would do is lose them income.

Again due to consumer pressure, that is changing and we can now titre test to check immunity, which whilst not entirely foolproof (it may not pick up any antibodies if the animal hasn't recently mounted an immune response to that particular threat, but that doesn't mean they do not have the ability to produce those antibodies if necessary when their immune system IS challenged) is extremely useful.

These titre tests are demonstrating pretty much across the board that veterinary vaccinations last much much longer, life times longer, than manufacturers suggested (all five of mine have been tested this year, none have been done since puppy jabs, all show immunity, and they range from 2 to 13 years old).

So yeah, there are issues with over vaccination and vaccine reactions.... but we are NOT over vaccinating people. We are not giving humans multiple doses of the exact same vaccine year after year after year. Even with the flu jab, that is not the exact same vaccine each year, if it were it would rarely be effective!

I'd also like to counter the idea that children are vaccinated so elderly people can choose not to be... that is rubbish.

Those who can be vaccinated should do so, to protect themselves and those who CANNOT be vaccinated - be they young OR old, for whatever reason.

It is important to vaccinate children not just because their smaller bodies and less developed immune systems could do with the help, but because children are from a viral point of view.. rampant little disease vectors, with low levels of hygiene and high possibility of transferring germs far and wide.

So as someone for whom flu would be deadly (and yes, I got the jab, I always do and will do until I can't have it any more), please, get your kids vaccinated.

You haven't got time to research it so you ask random strangers about the health impact on not vaccinating your children? In the time it took you to post this and wait for the responses you could have researched credible sources to answer your questions. You know what most people are going to say anyway.

A quick Google shows 600 deaths a year in the UK from flu complications, sometimes rising to over 10,000, even 13,000 in the uk in 2013.

Figures:

In 2014, 28,330 people died of flu complications; 91 0-4 year olds and 31 5-14 year olds. The vaccine was introduced in 2013/14.

Last year 1,692 people died from flu complications, 3 aged 0-4 years old, and 10 from 5-14 year olds.

There, I've done your research you were too busy to do. What do you think?

There is absolutely no good reason not to have. Parents who opt out are massively failing their children.

mine will be getting them next week. but I am a bit worried. A friend's DD got really ill just after having it (40 fever, admitted to hospital). She was told some children react pretty strongly as it is a live vaccine.

This year’s flu is especially nasty and the nhs is on its knees. Protect your family where you can.

What widdlindiddlin said.

Proper Flu is horrific. Anyone who says they’ve had ‘mild’ flu hasn’t ever had flu.

Protecting your children and others from it..... no brainer

I always get vaccinated and my child.

Flu is going round here and it's a nasty one - really making people very ill.

widdlin I don’t disagree with what you write but you miss the obvious which is the concern that over vaccinating these animals is damaging their health. Doesn’t matter what the vaccine is for - it’s the principle. Although the additives in animal vaccines are different to be fair. But in animal circles we all talk about the worsening of animal health due to over vaccination in a way that is never done with humans. Yet we now vaccinate our children annually against the flu. Yes we have had a flu vaccine for years but not one that is used intranasally ever years for decades.
Meanwhile our children and generally sicker and less happy than ever before and we don’t know why. There are no studies done on multiple annual vaccines against unvaccinated controls because they can’t be done.

And as you say, children are bug vectors which is why we vaccinate them. And it often doesn’t work particularly well.

So no - despite the glossy leaflets and outrage i decline this one. And I don’t vaccinate my dogs yearly either.

Well, of course she hasn't got time to research it - if she already had a relevant degree in a medical science (3 years or so, and the basic level to even begin to do yourself) she probably wouldn't be posting!

The remaining question is whether or not you trust the many HCPs who have put years into studying, read the journals, check actual papers from time to time (or all the time of that is their core work).

And how you answer the questions 'would I like my DC to avoid the flu?'

The vax programme for adults has been running for years now. Adding children was recent, and very much welcomed. Flu sweeping through a school is horrible

Please let them have it. I work in a paediatric unit and flu is already taking hold, lots of poorly kids confirmed with flu. It can make children very ill please have it.

2017-2018 the flu vaccine was effective in 27 per cent of kids dropping to ten per cent in older kids. Dunno where your 60 per cent came from but that maybe related to overall and the jab which is more effective?

I just don't want my kids to have the flu (or pass it on to others). Its not a minor illness, you can die from the flu. For me that's about all there is to it really.

In children aged 2-17, the flu vaccine prevented 66% of flu cases in 2016-17, 27% of flu cases in 2017-18, and 49% of flu cases in 2018-19.

I’ve always declined this one.

Despite people insisting that children aren’t vaccinated to protect the elderly, that’s the opposite of some NHS literature.

I’ve never had flu, we don’t know any elderly people, I’m just not at all comfortable with this vaccine due to so many people being unwell after having it.