Children of working mothers are more likely to mug you

[chomalungma]

I know. It was 13 years ago. It's probably out of context. Sometimes you say things that rattle a few cages.

But it all builds a picture of our current Prime Minister, Boris Johnson.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/04/boris-johnson-claimed-children-of-working-mothers-more-likely-to-mug-you

"“In the last 30 years an ever-growing proportion of British women have been ‘incentivised’ or socially gestapoed into the workplace, on what seems to me to be the dubious assumption that the harder a woman works the happier she will be, when I am not sure that is true of women or anyone else,” he wrote.

In the book, published before he became mayor of London, Johnson said an increasing number of female graduates tended to pair up with male graduates – a process known by economists as “assortative mating” – and that they then pool their advantages.

“The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, Neets [not in education, employment or training] and mug you on the street corner."

AIBU to think that his articles from the past reveal much about his views on women, Muslims, LGBT people....

The overwhelming feeling I get from this debate is that many women see themselves as above child rearing...they consider themselves too clever and interesting for it and it should be outsourced as soon as possible to usually working class women on minimum wage. This is pretty much what happens. Child care is very poorly paid.

Are men too clever and interesting to look after their children too? Or are women being selfish for keeping such a sacred occupation all to themselves?

It's all very well going on about the sanctity of motherhood, but that has never stopped men from being violent towards mothers has it. It is all connected - politicians who are obsessed with single mothers somehow never remember to ask where the fathers are do they, or complain about fathers who shouldn't be having sex.

This website sounds disturbingly familiar for the modern day parents too. www.cbc.ca/life/backintimefordinner/crazy-things-we-told-housewives-in-the-1950s-1.4683987

Still waiting for that elusive answer....

....but we wants our blue passports and he said he will Brexit for us.

Child care is very poorly paid.

I think it depends, I have an excellent childminder who is £70 a day & has about 4 kids on average. That's £280 a day & we pay holiday pay.

Still waiting for that elusive answer

To what? A definition of a,word. It's irrelevant. If you don't think a mother and child have a special bond that's unique then I think that's really sad.

I think mothers and fathers have a special bond with their children and it’s pretty sad if you don’t think that @formerbabe

Not sure why you’re determined to bring god into it though ...

I think it depends, I have an excellent childminder who is £70 a day & has about 4 kids on average. That's £280 a day & we pay holiday pay.

Are people paying £70 a day for wrap around care?

Must admit I would not feel my preschool child was getting excellent care when there are 4 preschool kids sharing 1 adult - I don't think that's even legal!

Registered childminders can look after up to six children up to the age of eight. Of these, a maximum of three can be under-fives, who are classed as 'young children' and a single childminder can only have one child under one year old. This ratio includes the childminder's own children if they are under age eight.*

Are people paying £70 a day for wrap around care?

No thats £10 a hour

Must admit I would not feel my preschool child was getting excellent care when there are 4 preschool kids sharing 1 adult - I don't think that's even legal!

I'm well aware of the ratios & so is she as she is Ofsted registered. I said average because some days she has 2, some days she has 3 under 5 & then collects a few older ones at pick up. Sometimes she has more eg school holidays & days she has more younger children in general she has an assistant.

My eldest who doesn't go anymore loves it & I send him on the odd day during the holidays.

Do you feel SAHPs who have 3 under 3 can't provide excellent care?

Do you feel SAHPs who have 3 under 3 can't provide excellent care? As mother of multiples I know that if you asked them - they would find it less than ideal and it is rarely planned, but you muddle through. I certainly didn't feel having 2 babies at the same time was providing them with excellent care - their needs were frequently compromised, but that's another story.

So do you have an issue with preschools who tend to have 8 3 & 4 yr olds per adult?

I'm well aware of the ratios & so is she as she is Ofsted registered. I said average because some days she has 2, some days she has 3 under 5 & then collects a few older ones at pick up. Sometimes she has more eg school holidays & days she has more younger children in general she has an assistant. You are aware that average means more than 4 as well as less than 4? Your description is very misleading the kids that she picks up after school are not giving her £70 a day - you only qualified on a later post that what you meant was £10 per hour. Try being a little bit more honest about your child minders situation before you argue that she is really well paid - are you normally so dishonest?

We have a culture that overglorifies ‘work’, for both men and women, and it’s damaging to families. There’s a thread on started by a woman who would earn a pittance if she went back to work after maternity leave, and there are plenty of posters are urging her to ‘work weekends or evenings’ - effectively meankng that her and her partner see less of each other and have decreased communication and added stress. Surefire steps towards a breakup, but this kind of shortsighted advice is peddaled out of this misplaced notion that she must have a ‘work ethic’ even when the job is poorly paid and of little value to society.

What a strange assumption to make when no one has suggested anything of the sort

Well the comment I was referring to asked if it's ideal to share things equally regardless of the effect on parents and children.

I made an assumption that it was an implied negative effect I admit,due to the tone of the post.

And I can't see in what other situation two parents equally sharing responsibilities and would have a negative effect on themselves or the children.

So do you have an issue with preschools who tend to have 8 3 & 4 yr olds per adult?
From the NSPCC We recommend the following adult to child ratios as the minimum numbers to help keep children safe: 0 - 2 years - one adult to three children. 2 - 3 years - one adult to four children. 4 - 8 years - one adult to six children.
You're paying you make the choices - I would not pay someone £10 and hour to look after my preschooler while looking after 3 others.

@Acciocats

This is the post I was referring to .

None of us are born with the knowledge we need to fulfill any role, but we will have innate skills, preferences and competencies that will mean that we will find certain activities and roles easier than others. This is honed as we grow and ideally in adulthood we can find a role that utilises our strengths effectively and doesn't play too much on our weaknesses. Of course both parents need to be involved and engaged parents, but is it ideal that they split everything equally to achieve this irrespective of the effect this has on the parents and children involved? I'm not convinced and find this at odds with the logic one would apply to any other area of life.

@PanicAndRun I know, it’s bizarre isn’t it?

The suggestion that many couples wish to live balanced lives and not take on a single earner/carer role is turned into ‘splitting everything absolutely equally!’ Some people clearly find the idea of couples who can both earn, care, cook and do housework very threatening!

Try being a little bit more honest about your child minders situation before you argue that she is really well paid - are you normally so dishonest?

FFS I was trying to just post quickly. Yes I am a absolute liar always.

Your description is very misleading the kids that she picks up after school are not giving her £70 a day

You asked about wrap around care which is 8-9 & 3.30-6 so 3.5 hours which at £10 a hour is £35 so for 2 older kids that's £70.

You are aware that average means more than 4 as well as less than 4?

Yes and you are aware that 38 weeks of the year children aren't in school & it's less for private pupils so I would say on average across the year my childminder has 4 children paying £70 a day. My child attends 2 days a week and one of those days there are just 2 of them for the main part of the day.

The NSPCC figures you are quoting is a recommendation & statutory ratios depend on the age of children & the setting. Pre schools attached to schools that only cater for 3 & 4 yr olds tend to have a ratio of 1:8 & then reception yr tends to jump to 1:16 & in some cases 1:30 particularly in the state sector. So do you have a problem with those ratios?

My mum was a stay at home mum to 3 under 3 but did lots of activities & we did attend some childcare. I don't feel I missed out. My Gran was also a stay at home mum but with 5 kids, no dishwasher, no washing machine etc she certainly didn't have the time to devote to her children all day.

I would not pay someone £10 and hour to look after my preschooler while looking after 3 others.

That's your choice & I'm happy with mine & much prefer the smaller mixed age setting of a childminder to a nursery.

Are you going to take up the free 15 out of interest? Do you know how much the government pays per hour for that?

Nothing to like about Alexander J or his party. Arse.

20% of childminders in London earn more than 35k a yr so whilst not loads not always poorly paid imo

@cukooboo you don't have to justify your decisions to me - your kids will be the judge and you can argue all you like with them - I know what choices were made by my parents and I would not repeat them but I have forgiven.

20% of childminders in London earn more than 35k a yr so whilst not loads not always poorly paid imo 20% earn £35k and over - that would give you a great house to run your business from in London with 6 kids running around, wouldn't it - sounds like great quality child care!

I wasn't aware I was trying to justify my choices to you? That certainly wasn't my intention.
I simply replied to one of your posts about what childminders earn & then posted some information about ratios.

Does this mean you don't want to answer my questions?

20% earn £35k and over - that would give you a great house to run your business from in London with 6 kids running around

Well she has a husband & they live in an 800k property (she's a neighbour) so I think she's doing ok. 35k plus is certainly more than TAs & NQTs get paid.

sounds like great quality child care!

😱 OMG you're right! How could I be such a bad mother & not look at her care, setting, qualifications & provision.

Pre schools attached to schools that only cater for 3 & 4 yr olds tend to have a ratio of 1:8 & then reception yr tends to jump to 1:16 & in some cases 1:30 particularly in the state sector. So do you have a problem with those ratios? My kids were lucky enough not to have those ratios all day when they were preschool - they had a teacher and a TA in a state nursery with 8 kids - they only stayed there 3 hours a day - it was in the Labour years though.

your kids will be the judge and you can argue all you like with them

How did I miss this gem! Seriously don't waste a precious second thinking about my children. Just focus on your own. Good luck....