Husband just been sacked

[bellill]

My husband has just been sacked for leaving work 1 hour early a couple of weeks ago.

3 of them on their shift, 1 finishes 2 hours earlier and the other had called in sick. He was on his own and they're not permitted to do their job if no one else is there due to H&S - it was late at night so no customers would be calling/coming in so he left.

AIBU to think sacking today with no warning is unfair? I understand he was paid for an hour he didn't work and that's wrong but he offered to pay it back, do extra hours. He bends over backwards for them all the time.

On a side note, they generally always leave earlier on this shift, and its never been an issue until the one time he does it on his own? He said to the manager about the fact other people leave early all the time and the manager just shrugged and said 'its a case by case thing'

Does he have any grounds for unfair dismissal?! If not then fair enough but it just feels a bit OTT and unfair. Other much more serious and even life threatening things have happened recently with other members of staff and no action has been taken.

TIA for any helpful advice.

We've had a tough few years money wise and we have finally got ourselves back on track in the last couple of months, actually talking about booking a holiday for the first time in 6 years and now this feels like such a blow :(

Do contact ACAS. If they paid him an extra hour in error and he then offered to pay it back that is unfair. Ask ACAS about the Payment of Wages Act. Separately unfair dismissal act only covers people once they are in employment for two years. There are some grounds that are unfair before two years but this isn't once of them. Breach of contract would be how to progress this but that is expensive and onerous and as he hasn't been there that long probably not worth it. Probably best for your husband to get a stiff letter from ACAS sent to this Company and come to an agreement regarding a reference and ideally some payment for notice whilst he finds another job.

As an aside, one of the first things the Conservative government did when they came into power in 2015 was to change unfair dismissal law so that people are only covered after two years, rather than the one year that had applied for a long time. In this General Election if you care about employment legislation do not vote Conservative.

I once got sacked for asking to leave an hour early (it was a job selling houses, just before the crash). It was miserable and nobody had been in to the sales office all day. So I rang my boss and asked if I could go home early, as nobody was around and it was a miserable evening, so unlikely to have many venturing around. He told me to stay. So I stayed, and nobody came in, and I toddled home. Called into a meeting Monday evening and unceremoniously fired for not showing an interest in the job.....

I now know that I can't be in boring jobs and I hate sales. I felt the utmost glee when I heard that that property developer was the first to go bust about 6 months later. Pricks used to land in the field across the road in their helicopter.

Was let go with no reason from a temp job where I'd been interviewed for the permanent role a week after telling my boss I was pregnant (had to tell her as needed to take time off for extra appointments due to medical history). So I tell her lets say Friday. All the next week she's on annual leave, she comes back the following Monday but wasn't in the office and HR escorted me off the premises (no explanation required they told me as I was just a temp). If I'd had the energy I'd have looked into discrimination on the grounds of pregnancy, but I had bigger fist to fry unfortunately. That boss has since been scandalised in the News for fraud and removed from her position as CEO. (Think it was fraud anyway - something involving money). She faced an executive committee of parliament televised across the country and BOY did I relish that. I've since learned not to work for state agencies as they're incredibly bureaucratic. I was her PA.

MerryDeath Except the hours pay he received for an hour he didn’t work?
But he wouldn't have been working had he stayed on either.... That's the logic he had.

Yes considering the fact he regularly works through his lunch, does back to back 12+ hour shifts to help them out when they need cover and they couldn’t even get someone to work alongside him for that extra hour then I don’t really feel bad about that 1hr on reflection I think he more than deserves it. He could have gone about it in a better way yes, but I stand by the fact I think it was OTT to sack him whether you think I’m right or wrong and what the law says that’s my opinion. And his manager is breaking the law a lot worse as I’ve found out tonight so I think karma will be spying him a visit soon 🙂

In the second instance, I had been told that I had done an excellent interview, was excelling in the role and due process notwithstanding, I would be most likely be offered the permanent role.

OP some employers want people to almost work-to-rule. Clock in before shift starts, clock out after shift ends.
That you stay late 10 nights a month unpaid (I've always been on salary) is not taken into account when you're 10 mins late 2 mornings in a month.
Stupid, but that's just it.

Without appealing there's no point taking it any further as ACAS will see that as he has accepted the decision.

This isn't true. ACAS don't make decisions, they give impartial advice. If you refuse conciliation they give a certificate for you to go to tribunal. You don't even need to have a supportable case. I'm currently defending one where the claim was out of time and ACAS still gave the certificate even so!

Not going through an offered appeals process could go against a claimant. Not offering an appeals process goes against the employer.

However, you can't bring a straight unfair dismissal claim with under two years employment. This does sound like straightforward unfair dismissal. So the absence of the appeals process cannot really be addressed as that cannot be brought as a claim on its own.

The employee can, however, write an appeal letter and hopefully get the case looked at by an independent higher level manager. Make it clear it is an appeal against the dismissal and the process. They are pretty unlikely to "downgrade" it from gross misconduct, they might overturn it though. If they downgraded it they would have to pay notice pay.

The best outcome, other than it being overturned, would be they agree to give only a factual reference re date of joining and date of leaving.

Make sure they pay his accrued holiday to his last day.

Life can be a bitch, sorry you are having to go through this and righ before xmas. Sounds like it was an excuse or over reaction. Hopefully something better will come his way but good you are going to ACAS, best of luck

Normally he wouldn’t have any grounds to claim unfair dismissal because he’s got less than 2 years service; however with a health and safety element, he might not need that service to claim.

Definitely worth seeking some advice.

Yes considering the fact he regularly works through his lunch, does back to back 12+ hour shifts to help them out when they need cover and they couldn’t even get someone to work alongside him for that extra hour then I don’t really feel bad about that 1hr on reflection I think he more than deserves it.

All of that is absolutely irrelevant.

If he had other problems he should have dealt with them appropriately.

What you’re saying is that it’s okay to take money for work not done when it suits you, and that is breaking the law.

It sounds like they wanted to get rid of someone and he was the easiest.

I once got sacked for asking to leave an hour early [...] So I rang my boss and asked if I could go home early, as nobody was around and it was a miserable evening, so unlikely to have many venturing around. He told me to stay. So I stayed, and nobody came in, and I toddled home

Alrighteo You were not sacked for asking to leave an hour early. You were sacked because you asked, were told no, but left early anyway. You walked off the job.

I see several people have already suggested contacting ACAS; also, what is the company's Lone Worker policy and did the company have a risk assessment, especially in the light of what sounds like it might be a recent (potential?) breach of H&S?

www.hse.gov.uk/toolbox/workers/lone.htm and www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg73.htm might be helpful here.

Depending on the industry, there may also be more specific legislation that might help his case. But seriously, ACAS are the people to start with. They're usually excellent.

You were sacked because you asked, were told no, but left early anyway. You walked off the job.

Re-read my post. I stayed. You've highlighted it in bold.

He's only been there since May. His face didn't fit and they wanted rid. Tell him to sign up to agencies tomorrow morning first thing. He will have work again by Monday.

He would probably have been dismissed for falsifying timesheets. It’s gross misconduct. Contact ACAS is he in a union?

@cannycat20 thank you, we will take a look at the links and I’m not sure if they had anything in writing for those policies I will get him to request them he’s waiting to hear back from the general manager regarding the situation currently

Ask them for a perfunctory reference and tell him to tell agencies/new employers that it was just a temp role.

OP! If I was psychic I would have known about your husbands accident. But I'm not, so I stand by my comment that regularly leaving an hour before your work finishes is not very bright. I am sorry he had the accident, am pleased that he is recovering, but am assuming that it has no relevance to this situation as you did not reference it in your original post.

And assuming that he has had to sign some sort of time sheet to claim ALL the extra time (there appear to be more than the one hour in your original post) he has apparently said he worked, then yes, he and his fellow co workers are in effect stealing from their employer, just as dishonest as walking out with tools, equipment,printers, stationery, jars of coffee, petty cash, car parts , designer jeans or any of the other stuff that dishonest employees regard as fair game for pinching.

I don't think most people are perfect or live perfect lives , I know I'm not, and don't, but theft is theft, whether physical or by deception.

Well he left and no one was there. He got paid for an hour that he didn't do. He needed to ask for the lone working policy to be clarified. We had a lone working policy when on lates, we had to inform security. But we couldn't go home because of being alone.

How does he clock his hours? Maybe the issue isn't him leaving, maybe its taking money for hours he wasn't there? That would be gross misconduct. Maybe someone higher realised that he left and that's why he got caught.

Okay plot twist, not sure why he didn’t mention this earlier BUT he has never had anything in writing to say he has to be there until midnight! When he signed his contract the late shift was until 10.30pm then 2 months ago they got told it was changing to midnight. So if his contract states 10.30pm surely he hasn’t done anything wrong according to that document?!

So if his contract states 10.30pm surely he hasn’t done anything wrong according to that document?!

If he has been staying till 12 then he has accepted the change of hours. A contract at this point doesn't need to be signed, to be argued that it has been accepted.

Ok, if it were me...I’m not allowed for H&S to be in my place of work alone. I would email, text, call my line manager and ask for guidance. If no response received I would leave and l, text, call LM to advise, if no response received and I was paid for said period I would email, text, call LM and pay group to advise.

Did he actually do ANY of these?

Hmm, look at 'custom and practice' which may get them off that one.