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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Husband just been sacked

135 replies

bellill · 02/12/2019 15:14

My husband has just been sacked for leaving work 1 hour early a couple of weeks ago.

3 of them on their shift, 1 finishes 2 hours earlier and the other had called in sick. He was on his own and they're not permitted to do their job if no one else is there due to H&S - it was late at night so no customers would be calling/coming in so he left.

AIBU to think sacking today with no warning is unfair? I understand he was paid for an hour he didn't work and that's wrong but he offered to pay it back, do extra hours. He bends over backwards for them all the time.

On a side note, they generally always leave earlier on this shift, and its never been an issue until the one time he does it on his own? He said to the manager about the fact other people leave early all the time and the manager just shrugged and said 'its a case by case thing'

Does he have any grounds for unfair dismissal?! If not then fair enough but it just feels a bit OTT and unfair. Other much more serious and even life threatening things have happened recently with other members of staff and no action has been taken.

TIA for any helpful advice.

We've had a tough few years money wise and we have finally got ourselves back on track in the last couple of months, actually talking about booking a holiday for the first time in 6 years and now this feels like such a blow :(

OP posts:
MrsPinkCock · 02/12/2019 16:10

Hi OP

He can’t claim standard unfair dismissal, no - as he needs two complete years service.

However, he could potentially claim wrongful dismissal if he isn’t paid his notice pay in lieu - this claim can be brought from day one in employment as it’s a breach of contract claim.

The company might attempt to argue that notice isn’t owed as he committed gross misconduct - however the law isn’t concerned with whether the company believe that he did - its concerned only with whether he committed gross misconduct (ie a fundamental breach of his employment contract) in fact.

Based on company policy preventing lone working, I don’t see that the company can state its gross misconduct, unless he failed to notify them in line with company procedures that he was specifically made aware of.

I wouldn’t bother appealing but I would write to them to say you feel the dismissal was wrongful as he is probably still entitled to notice pay. He’ll also be entitled to accrued holiday pay regardless.

BaloneyInMySlacks · 02/12/2019 16:14

I too think your working rights should start from day one. People have families to feed and mortgages etc etc to pay. It’s not right that someone can just come in one day and rip the rug from underneath you.

There's a school of thought that thinks that any employment rights at all are just a concession by the ruling classes towards the people they need to elect them.

Those concessions can be removed at any time, until the people demand them back. The 'ruling classes' - governments of any hue - balance what they think the public will accept (without kicking the Govt. out or revolting) against what business will accept.

Ultimately though, if we increase workers' rights we decrease the attractiveness of our workers as money-making units, and business moves elsewhere. Business is business.

Original poster
bellill · 02/12/2019 16:15

@MrsPinkCock thanks for this. Good to know he's entitled to his holiday pay, as he's only taken about 3 days so that extra money will be helpful x

OP posts:
mumwon · 02/12/2019 16:17

this is why its important to belong to a union

avacadooo · 02/12/2019 16:23

He was called into a one on one meeting with no notice?
He has grounds for unfair dismissal as he should have had 48 hours notice of a disciplinary meeting.
There should have been steps taken as he's passed probation so step one verbal warning second written etc.
He also should have been given the opportunity to bring in a union rep or unbiased person.
Get on the phone to Acas but my husband was working for a company that the owner shit down over night and they couldn't do anything because he hadn't been there two years so just be aware they might not be able to do anything.

adaline · 02/12/2019 16:24

Leaving work without permission is generally always considered gross misconduct, whether you've been there two days, two weeks or two years.

I've never had a job where I can just go home early when I feel like it - I always needed permission from a manager or the supervisor in charge that day. Now I am the manager, I will happily let my staff get off early when it's quiet but they have to ask - they can't just decide to go home 'cause they're bored.

mumwon · 02/12/2019 16:25

can I also suggest getting some advice from solicitor who has expertise in this - some will give you a half an hour cheap introductory advice - believe me this is worth it

solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/search/results?LocationId=england&Location=England&Pro=False&UmbrellaLegalIssue=LIUEMP&LegalIssue=LIEME&Language=

ShippingNews · 02/12/2019 16:33

I've always worked in a field where you can't work solo . But that doesn't mean you can go home if you're left alone. You're expected to make yourself useful with some cleaning, filing, tidying up, answering the phone. Deciding to leave the place unattended just isn't an option . Sorry you're going through this but he should have stayed.

EBearhug · 02/12/2019 16:41

Was there any discussion/disciplinary process, or was he just told to leave?

Original poster
bellill · 02/12/2019 16:42

Thanks again everyone for your helpful advice. We will seek advice from ACAS and just ensure he gets the money he is owed and as some have suggested get it downgraded from gross misconduct.

I've told him all what you have said and seems like he's already on the case. Luckily he isn't one to sit around and dwell on things, he'd already got an interview lined up before he'd even told me. probably he knew he had to hit me with some positive news after the bad haha! Trying to stay positive and just keep my fingers crossed for Weds.
Thanks again. I didn't expect so many repsonses tbh! x

OP posts:
Original poster
bellill · 02/12/2019 16:50

@EBearhug from what he told me on the phone he got to work this morning, was called into the office, told he was sacked and then escorted off site! No discussion etc. He did hold his hands up and say he could see what he did was wrong and offered to pay back the money/do extra hours unpaid but they said no.
He has left a message for the higher up manager who offered him the job to speak to him as he isn't sure if he is even aware.
Someone was sacked last week and the higher manager came in especially for that, but he wasn't there today. The manager that sacked him has previous for this - and has done the same at other companies too. I hope he's never on the receiving end - or maybe secretly i do haha!

OP posts:
Jaxhog · 02/12/2019 16:59

Does sound pretty unreasonable, but ACAS can advise.

Good luck! He sounds on the ball about finding another job though.

BlaueLagune · 02/12/2019 17:09

I too think your working rights should start from day one

Definitely. Employers make candidates jump through so many hoops before offering them a job, they should stand by the decisions they make, or go through a process to get rid of people.

LarryTheLurker · 02/12/2019 17:10

The 2 years service doesn't always apply. Citizens Advice might be able to assist:
'It’s always ‘automatically unfair’ if you’re dismissed because you:
....
took action about a health and safety issue...'.
Worth looking into.

HugoSpritz · 02/12/2019 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlaueLagune · 02/12/2019 17:11

Oh and when he gets a new job, join a union. Everyone can join a union, you don't have to be part of a unionised workforce.

Longfacenow · 02/12/2019 17:16

I hope you get clarity with ACAS.

I think he'll struggle to justify why he didn't spend the hour doing other non customer facing tasks or phone the manager on call to ask to go home.

namechanger0987 · 02/12/2019 17:25

He won't have a leg to stand on unfortunately as he hasn't been employed by them for more than 2 years so unless he can prove it is discrimination then he won't be able to go to tribunal or anything.
He could try appealing to HR or another manager but it's doubtful he will get anywhere.
I think it's shit that employment law only protects you after 2 years

DCOkeford · 02/12/2019 17:25

I too think your working rights should start from day one

It is a noble sentiment, but enhanced workers rights tend to have the opposite effect to that which was intended.

Unfortunately tightening up workers rights like this results in higher unemployment and terrible conditions for existing employees.

Firms are very reluctant to take on new workers if they cannot get rid of them quickly (they just tend to give more work to existing employees)

Dodie66 · 02/12/2019 17:33

This happened to my daughter of years ago. Sacked on the spot and escorted off site. She was working and couldn’t do the job she was supposed to do because the equipment couldn’t be used in the rain and it was raining hard. So the job didn’t get done and another employee reported her and said she wasn’t doing her job and had refused to do it. She had been working there less that 2 years and was a contractor so didn’t have any rights. 2 years on she has her own sucessful business doing something she loves and is much less stressed. Hoping it will all workout for the best for your DH

Irisloulou · 02/12/2019 17:35

He should have sat it out for the hour, or rang someone to check that it was OK.
I think they have made an example of him unfortunately. Not much you can do now.

You could appeal it, but I doubt you would win.

Best to look for a new job and be squeaky clean going forward. Lesson learned and all that.

Bluerussian · 02/12/2019 17:36

belill, I can't add anything but just want to say I'm so sorry for your husband and for you. Hope he gets another job soon, it must be so worrying for you both.

Flowers
Lovemenorca · 02/12/2019 17:36

Definitely one of those threads where I would love to hear the other side of the story

LovesNettles · 02/12/2019 17:36

Sorry but everyone is focussing on the fact that he "can't do his job when alone" but, op, you did say when in the same position, "whoever is left behind has to just sit around and wait until they're back." so whether or not it's logical in his mind to leave,as he couldn't do any work whilst alone, deep down I'm guessing he knew it was a no no to leave. Having said that, I think firing him is way OTT under the circumstances, and it really sucks for you guys. A stern warning would have sufficed imo.

VincentVanGoughandhisear · 02/12/2019 17:45

Is there more to this?

Had anything else happened previously?