To keep quiet about my friend's spending habits?

[AlexaShutUp]

Friend has gone through a very messy divorce. There was violence and emotional abuse. She is very fragile, and in need of a lot of support. I have been trying to help in whatever way I can, mainly by listening and letting her offload, and by offering practical support with her four children. She has a lot on her plate, and I really want to help.

She has confided in me that she is very worried about her financial situation, and she is increasingly getting into debt. She said that she lies awake at night worrying about this. I don't know the extent of her debt, but think it's mainly on credit cards and a couple of unpaid legal bills. From what she has said, I don't think the amounts are insignificant.

I'm concerned that she is burying her head in the sand about this, and have urged her to seek professional advice from CAB, a debt charity or similar. However, so far, I have chosen not to point out that her spending habits are not helping the situation, because I think she will just push me away if she feels that I'm judging in any way, and she needs all the help she can get.

However, the reality is that she is spending too much, and this is getting her further into debt - e.g. taxis where they're really not needed, buying spares of stuff that will never be used, frequent takeaways and meals out, extravagant gifts at Christmas etc. Of course, I appreciate that these things are probably helping to take a little bit of the pressure off, but then she says that she is stressed about money, so the pressure is just piled back on again. I am aware that someone else tried to broach this with her by suggesting that she could cut back on some stuff, but she got really annoyed with him and told me that he just didn't understand how hard things are for her. She also said that she didn't feel that there was anything that she could realistically cut back on.

One part of me feels that I should just tell her that there are plenty of things that she could cut back on, and I'd be more than happy to help her work through these. However, I don't think she wants to hear it, and I'm concerned that she would interpret it as a criticism. FWIW, I'm honestly not judging - I'm quite extravagant myself and certainly don't have the right to lecture anyone on thriftiness; however, if my financial circumstances were to change, I do know where I'd cut back.

Her ex is still paying the mortgage on the family home, and surprisingly, pays a good amount of maintenance, but as he was a very high earner, she is obviously having to adjust to a somewhat reduced standard of living, and of course, she doesn't want the children to lose out. However, getting herself deeper and deeper into debt really isn't going to help.

I genuinely want to do the right thing here, but can't quite decide what's best. Should I try to talk to her about her spending, or is it better to keep quiet as I have done to date? I did offer to go to CAB with her, but she didn't seem very keen on that idea. I don't know if she will go on her own.

I think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't whatever you decide. I doubt she'll thank you but it sounds like she is being a bit reckless with £££ from what you say. You can only try and she may well get huffy. It does sound like someone needs to try and sort her spending out though.

Thanks crotchety, that's kind of how I feel - damned if I do and damned if I don't. I think she does need help, just not sure if I'm the person who should be helping with that.

Could you offer to go with her to CAP or something? They will help set spending limits for her. Or offer to help her work out a budget?

Rather than pointing out specifics, offer to go through a budget. If she says no then leave her to it.

I have offered to go to CAB with her, but she didn't seem keen.

Offering to help her do a budget is a good idea. Any thoughts on how I could suggest this without it coming across as patronising?

I think you can suggest it ("Do you want me to go through it with you? Sometimes just having a fresh pair of eyes can help?") but if she's reluctant, you can't force your advice on her. I suspect she knows it already but it's filling a purpose in her life and she's not ready to have it taken away.

I suspect she knows it already but it's filling a purpose in her life and she's not ready to have it taken away.

Yes, I think this is very true. Thank you for that insight.

I am struggling with finances at the moment. I’m ashamed of it. I’ve now curbed my spending but this is only after a few months of head firmly buried in sand and continuing spending on things I couldn’t afford.

I would be grateful to any friend offering to sit down and go through figures with me...

Can YOU go to CAB, OP, and ask them about things and maybe set up an appointment for your friend, then she can go prepared with statements etc. I doubt that you can just walk in and expect to get things sorted there and then on a first visit - you will have got the ball rolling for her and if she cancels, well, at least you've done all you can.

I think that bringing up individual luxuries is not the right approach (she definitely knows) but offering to sit down and work out a budget with her is a good idea. Letting her know that it's normal to feel overwhelmed and scared to actually start looking into income and liabilities but that once she has done it she will feel a lot better because it will be less unknown and she will have a plan. You sound like a lovely friend.

I imagine that she’s loathe to part with the small pleasures because she’s little else to comfort her. It’s not dissimilar to how people smoke to ease the stress be guilt of being a smoker. She knows. She has to. I don’t think there’s anything you can say here unless she asks for money from you.

Thing is, stopping overspending (a bit like stopping overeating) sounds easy when you don't have a problem yourself.

I think you can offer to support and help, but as others have said you're damned if you do and damned if you don't on this one.

It sounds like spending is becoming an emotional crutch for her. Maybe suggesting support for wider issues could be an alternative route and that could help her work on finances in due course

I just want to add that you sound like a lovely friend and if not now, I think one day she will look back and thank you for your intervention!

She can continue to stick her head in the sand but nothing will get any better. This link is to the MSE budget planner, which is brilliant.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/Budget-planning/#bplanner

It has weekly/monthly costs, and you can also put on annual things and it will break it down into monthly costs as well. it reminds you about things like birthdays and Christmas, .

She needs to go through her bank statements and list everything that she has bought, analyse it so she can see exactly where her money has gone, then complete the budget planner to see exactly how much she needs to live off.

I understand that it is hard for her, but she needs to accept that her lifestyle has changed, and live accordingly. She will have to cut out luxuries, such as nails, hair, coffees, or whatever it is that her money goes on. My friend used to buy a coffee every day for £2.30, she stopped and now puts that money in a savings account, this year she has £600 towards Christmas, that she has never had before. The little things do add up.

Some tough love is needed here, or it it will never get any better. People who like spending and won't stop, just build up more and more debt until they go bankrupt.

If she won't accept any help then there is nothing you can do, but at least you tried.

I have a friend who is similar. I finally accepted that it's not 'my place' to tell her how to handle her finances (and she wouldn't listen anyway). If she asks my opinion about buying something I'll say flatly "That's very expensive". If she complains about being caught short I just shrug and don't offer sympathy. I suggest less expensive restaurants or cooking together and try to steer us to free/low cost activities. I can't cure her 'problem' but I can do my best not to contribute to it.

Wait until she moans and say you saw a budget checker online, do you want some help going through it.

Maybe next time she mentions money worries, suggest she ies an online budget. There’s a good one on Moneysavingexpert.com. Point her in the right direction then it’s up to her.

I guess all the spending is a knee jerk reaction a# to what has happened. Maybe she hasn’t had to budget before and it’s all a bit scary.

Fragile S -we had the Same idea!

I separated this year and I have also had to tighten the purse strings a lot. I've made myself a nifty little spreadsheet in excel to keep track of my spending. I went totally OTT and included colour coded spending and graphs and formulas, but a basic one would be just as helpful. I found that once I saw how much money I was "wasting", I became loathe to spend anything more than I had to.
If your friend doesn't want to go over a budget with you, can you make small suggestions like switching energy tarrif/provider, get a better deal with her landline/broadband provider, going to a "budget" supermarket (Aldi, Lidl). Small budget savings might start her off on making bigger changes on her own by giving her a sense of achievement.
I'm trying to get my mum interested in my spreadsheets as she also has a spending problem, but she's not very "techy" so I may have to make something simpler for her

I think she doesn’t have much in the way of emotional resources right now. Takeaways rather than cooking, taxis rather than bus/walking, gifts to keep children amused - they are keeping her emotionally above water. So while long term it’s a bad idea, I think she needs to feel strong enough to tackle this herself (with your help if she asks for it).
I don’t think you will achieve anything by going for the tough/overly involved approach.
Support her where you are able to, be a listening ear. But don’t start running around making CAB appointments. She is capable of making one and will when she is ready.

Thank you all for your wise words and useful insights. It's absolutely right that she hasn't got much in the way of emotional resources right now, and I can see how her spending might be helping her to keep her head above water. I can also see how overspending can be a bit like overeating - you know you're doing it but can't quite bring yourself to stop. (Am a bit of a comfort eater myself, so that comparison makes sense to me - and I certainly wouldn't welcome anyone pointing out the error of my ways!)

You've all helped me to think this through, thank you. I think I'm going to wait until the next time she mentions it and then suggest that she tries the MSE budget/offer to go through it with her.

Sounds like a plan. It's also worth knowing that the MSE budget planner is not just about doing without treats, more about increasing income - checking that all benefits are being claimed for example, getting the best prices on boring things like utlities and insurance, because if you do both of these it leaves more money to spend on fun stuff. And then you get the tips on how to do this cheaper.

You sound lovely! What an awesome friend.

My ex did this. He's screwed his life up something rotten because of it. Even with his dad paying off, must be around 20k of it, he still cannot change his habits. He wants the lifestyle but he's not prepared to put the work in and he is constantly depressed. He did it when we were together and tried to blame the debt on me (I knew nothing about it, which he eventually admitted).

It's like an addiction though and even approaching the subject sensitively can cause them to close up and get defensive. I think it's something where they need to "admit" they have a problem first, kind of like alcoholics where it's the first step.

The overspending is probably emotional.

I would say something, first about the debts - point her to resources that will help handle the debt, and about the overspending but you will need to be blunt in a tactful way. Could you put it in terms of what you do to rein in your spending?