To take Brexit personally?

[Fiep]

I’m preparing to be flamed but I really want to hear views from all sides. Do try to be kind though.

I’m an EU citizen. I’ve lived in the UK for all my adult life and have spent most of that working with NHS patients. I’m a qualified professional and there is a skills shortage - we never manage to fill all our posts.

Most people can’t tell by my accent that I’m from the EU and instead assume I’m from another English-speaking country unless I tel them my name (which sounds foreign) or speak in another language.

Before the referendum I felt the UK was my home. It was the place I’d spent most of my life and I’ve always loved the British humour and quirky way of looking at things.

Nobody ever gave me grief about being foreign and I felt welcome and valued.

Shortly after the referendum, someone verbally abused me on a bus when they overheard me speaking in a European language on the phone. It really upset me. I’m privileged by most measures and I’m white, so I was not used to racist abuse. I now have a baby and struggle to talk to her in my language in public as I feel people are giving me judgemental looks when I’m out and about and speaking “foreign”, especially as I live in a rural place where the majority of shoppers at the big Tesco are White British and I see quite a few Union Jack / St George’s flag tattoos. This denies her the chance to grow up bilingual and I feel guilty about that. I do speak / read / sing to her at home but it’s not enough immersion in the language for it to make a difference.

On the other hand, most of my colleagues in health have always been immigrants too and I struggle to see how the NHS would run if it was just White British staffed.

AIBU to feel really angry about Brexit? To feel it’s just vitriol and wanting the country to be white? To take it personally and to let it affect me in that way? To look around the shops and feel that prejudice has been legitimised?

I’d actually be really keen to hear from Leavers as well as Remainers as I really can’t get my head around how anyone could have thought this was a good idea for something as woolly as “sovereignty” or whatever.

braces self for impact

@Christmasangst, as someone who has also lived overseas For prolonged periods at various times in their life I wholeheartedly agree. I loved the rich vibrant cultures I was privileged to experience as a working guest in my host countries, but I had no rights and that was fine - I wasn’t an indigenous member of their society. I was actually living overseas when Brexit occurred and did not vote, but I do find the whole “leavers are racist” argument profoundly irritating, because I most likely would have voted leave, yet my friend base is probably far more cosmopolitan and diverse than a many remainers.

@lookingforbakedalaska I think overly simplistic narratives either way are damaging and so I’m keen to understand. Having lived such a cosmopolitan life what were the main reasons you would have voted Leave?

Because I really struggle with on the one hand respecting people can have different views and on the other hand feeling like I personally am not wanted l anymore. So I figured I must just not fully understand the rationale yet

People aren’t stupid, they do stuff for a reason

I worked in the civil service for a long time (unrelated to my travelling) and in an area that was heavily involved in international cross border information sharing. I saw first hand the duplication of effort the EU created (with absolutely no added benefit) and felt that if my small area of policy was affected to that extent then the waste throughout government must be appalling. The bureaucracy and inefficiency disgusted me.

Oh OP I could have written your post.
The referendum took place when I was pregnant and it was overwhelming.
I live in a similar place to the one you describe and I too feel scared of speaking to DC in my language. Because I have had comments already and I am quite shy and sensitive.
I moved here for many reasons but one was how open this country was and all the different cultures and acceptance.
I am white and therefore I know I have been “better” than other immigrants as I am privileged and I have had the “but you are the right type of immigrant” disgusting sentence said to me a few times.
I wish I could leave now. I have a British and also EU passport and so does DC but DH is English and only speaks English so it won’t be happening, he only has a British passport.
The whole thing sucks.
And yes, I don’t feel like I belong here anymore or that I am wanted.

I wish I could go but I won’t be leaving my DH.

Also in my line of work (science) most of my colleagues were foreign. I have change jobs a bit now.

I also wish I didn’t have an accent or a foreign name. I so wish I sounded like I was from here.

@LookingforBakedAlaska I believe you that it’s probably quite bureaucratic. I wonder if it has to be, given the need to coordinate? Or whether it could be done more efficiently. To be honest I’ve seen the same issue in UK-only big institutions like the NHS; I’ve been frustrated at the unnecessary bureaucracy many times. Often these things accumulate in institutions. But whether for me it would be enough reason to then discard that institution completely... I don’t think so. For example, despite my exasperation with the bureaucracy in the NHS I passionately believe in it and believe it needs to stay. For me the same applies to the EU.

@Autumntoowet I’m so sorry you feel this way too. What sorts of comments have you received? That’s so horrible. The sense of being judged is really visceral and hurts

YANBU to feel angry about the act of economic self-harm. Many people in the Uk feel the same too.

I am so ashamed by this act that when I am abroad I do everything possible to avoid being identified as British. Fortunately most of the places I visit are those where I speak the local language. I will now not accept English translations or audio guides in English at museums any more, for example.

I voted leave. When we moved my children didn't go to school for 12 weeks as we couldn't get them places. The school they finally got into failed it's OFSTED. It is full of EU and non EU citizens (lots of Russians). Out of 30 in DSs there are only 10 or 11 British born children. Is it wrong to resent the poor education my children are getting when it does feel like we are educating half the world?

@Trollstice I hear your point and understand why you’re upset, I would be upset too about poor education. Thinking about it from a step back though do you really 100% believe it is because of the immigrants that education is poor? I don’t live far from a very posh University. In that city the schools are overrun with immigrants and yet are excellent.

Also I’m afraid Brexit is unlikely to get rid of Russians if that’s what you’d like, as it’s not in the EU. I know you said there are EU immigrants too so for that I refer to my earlier question. It seems to me the problem is poverty and inequality, not immigration? What do you think?

I voted Remain and still think leaving is a bad idea, although I had big reservations about a more federal Europe and a European army, etc.

Interestingly, though, when I've been in France I've met a number of people who say they are interested in a Frexit.

No Fiep, I don't think that it is 100% of the problem. There are 2 Russian children in my sons class. There are 5 Romanians. If I went to Romania and my children were in school but their children couldn't get places, do you think they would be thrilled by that situation? The school is poor because so much time is taken up actually just teaching basic English.

@Trollstice I can understand what you mean. I don’t know if it’s representative of how things are in the rest of the country. It sounds like your area needs investment in public services regardless of immigration or not. Hopefully a party that is keen on reducing inequality can achieve this for you.

Why do you think it is that kids don’t speak English? Does it take long for them to learn? I’m wondering because generally, kids tend to learn so quickly, for example when I was little we moved from one EU country to another (not UK), my parents didn’t speak the language but within months it was my first language, because of the immersion at school. I only spoke it to my parents (to their exasperation as they learned more slowly with their adult brains!)

Out of interest, what sorts of jobs do the Romanian parents do? Do you think English people would like those jobs? Genuinely wondering because businesses like fruit picking have really suffered as nobody wants to do it now the numbers of EU immigrants have dropped. Or conversely are they doing something highly skilled which the UK labour market has a shortage for? For example I know a very senior clinician from Romania and she is absolutely incredible.

These kids, are often coming at 10 or 11 years old. If the majority of your class are recent immigrants too, how quickly do you think they can possibly learn? The kids in DS's class are taking Sat's this year. 1 girl started in September without literally knowing a word.

The area has a high proportion of Romanian travellers. None of the recently arrived parents speak any English at all. There are a number of Slovakian and Polish parents who all seem to have low skilled jobs. Working as carers or in supermarkets, etc.

I feel the same way too. My views of the UK have really changed since the referendum. I'm not sure I feel at home her anymore.

@Trollstice I’m wondering what the vacancy rates for those jobs are like? Where I am there are always vacancies in care and supermarket jobs, indicating that everyone who is sufficiently skilled and able could take a vacancy, even if they’re English! But they’re not highly paid jobs and hard work. Particularly care. Do you think there is resentment in your community for people having those jobs, or is it more about the public services?

Are there English people in your community sending their kids to public schools?

I am in the same position as the OP. My attitude is Britain is lucky to have me. I am highly educated, have been a higher rate tax payer for 20 years and don’t use the NHS as I have private health.
I would love to leave to be honest but DH is British and our children not an age when it’s easy to uproot them. Luckily I live in London which I am sure will remain an international city so I am shielded from most of the Brexiteer-crazies🤷🏻‍♀️

@Trollstice I became curious so I googled “Romanian travellers in UK” and found this: www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/before-you-make-another-offhand-remark-about-roma-and-travellers-in-the-uk-wed-like-you-to-consider-a7168506.html%3famp

Do you think this population in your community faces discrimination, and if they were made more welcome the problems of poor language etc wouldn’t persist?

I voted brexit but it was nothing to do with immigration.

@Ken1976 brilliant, I’d really like to hear why? If you don’t mind sharing of course. And how would you feel if you heard someone speak “foreign” in public? Because I guess the whole point of this thread was for me to figure out whether IABU by taking it personally (on an emotional level) so your perspective could really help me understand

I'm sorry you and others feel like this and completely understand why you would.

Sadly, most people I know in real life who voted Leave ARE racist and voted with this and only this in mind. Their racism has gotten much worse over the last few years as well, it's like Brexit has given them permission to say what they really think. For those who voted Leave and insist they're not racist and Leave isn't anything to do with racism I would urge you to have a look at the pro Brexit groups on Facebook (those that haven't been banned), have a look at the appalling racism. If those sites don't give you pause for thought about what your voted has enabled and encouraged, nothing will. And before you say it, I know, not everyone who voted Leave is racist, I even know some non racist leave voters myself in real life.

OP you're not alone, have a look at this.

ukandeu.ac.uk/eu-nationals-feeling-unwelcome-in-the-uk/#

@KenDodd unfortunately this echoes some of the nasty things I’ve heard people say about other cultures when they assume I’m Antipodean and think I’ll agree with them (I get that a lot), and then they quickly back-pedal when they realise this isn’t the case and I’m in fact literally from the community they just insulted. This week at work someone English (I assume Leave) made Hitler jokes and gestures and when I said to him that this was not ok he got worried. He regularly says discriminatory stuff so I thought I should call him out. But he was only concerned because I am in a senior position where I could get him in trouble, he didn’t get it. I just tried to explain why it’s offensive and he just went “oh sorry I thought you were Australian”. As if that’s the point?!