to think the Tories are lying about getting 50,000 more nurses in the NHS

[chomalungma]

There are 280,000 registered nurses in the NHS
They are going to recruit and train 35,000 more.

They said there would be 330,000 nurses in 5 years time.
They said they would do this by improving retention.

Can any anyone explain this?

If they don't keep those nurses, there will be 280,000 - 15,000 + 35,000 which is 300,000.

Can anyone explain Conservative maths?

If they do recruit those nurses, there will be 280,000 plus 35,000 which is 315,000.

He said there would be 330,000 nurses.

How does he get that figure?

From nowhere.

It's a sound bite. We can barely recruit enough to maintain current levels- which are too low anyway.

It's bollox.

Maybe he had the same maths teacher as Diane Abbot

Also, the workforce is aging. Retaining staff means them working into their late 60s and 70s. Who the fuck wants that.

More lies.

They've said the figure includes (I think) 18,500 nurses they hope to retain. So, nurses who already work for the NHS.

Would you say that if Labour had pledged it? They pledged to scrap tuition fees last time then it turned out they weren’t really going to do it. Labour is full of bullshit as well

The only way I can see it:

Do nothing: there will be 280,000 - 15,000 = 265,000
Do this: there will be 280,000 + 35,000 = 315,000

So there will be 35,000 more nurses compared to what we have now
But 50,000 more nurses if we hadn't done anything and 15,000 had left.

There will not be 330,000 nurses though. Journalists need to ask the exact number of nurses that there will be.

They've said the figure includes (I think) 18,500 nurses they hope to retain. So, nurses who already work for the NHS

So will there be 330,000 nurses then?

Can you do the maths to get there? With working out?
How will that be 50,000 more nurses than there are now?

Matt Hancock is currently making himself look daft trying to explain the maths for this one!

abour is full of bullshit as well

Feel free to start your own 'whatabout' thread as well.

IMO, Boris says whatever comes into his head to win the election, as he is just an opportunist!

Have you seen the Good Morning Britain clip that's doing the rounds? It's painful.

Obfuscation and spin. They are trying to convince you that by losing fewer, there will on balance be more than if attrition continues at current rates.

As far as I can see, the easiest way to do that would be to make the UK a less hostile environment for both EU and Non-EU nurses (and other professionals) to move to. Which doesn't align with Tory policy to fuck the country over at every opportunity. In other words, they are lying.

From the telegraph

"The pledge will increase nursing numbers from 280,000 to 330,000 by 2024/5. But the "new" figure is just 31,500 new posts comprising 14,000 newly trained nurses, 5,000 nursing apprentices and 12,500 nurses from overseas.
The remaining 18,500 will be nurses who have been persuaded not to leave the profession or have returned to practice after a career break.
Pressed on the figure, Nicky Morgan, the Culture secretary, admitted that some people had thought the pledge meant 50,000 new nurses will be hired.
Unveiling a campaign poster in Westminster, Ms Morgan said: "I think there's been a confusion sometimes, people reading that as 50,000 new nurses."

"The pledge will increase nursing numbers from 280,000 to 330,000 by 2024/5. But the "new" figure is just 31,500 new posts comprising 14,000 newly trained nurses, 5,000 nursing apprentices and 12,500 nurses from overseas

Using that. you get to 315,000.

If you don't persuade people to leave, you get 265,000.

You cannot get 330,000

Do the sums yourself.

From the telegraph

"The pledge will increase nursing numbers from 280,000 to 330,000 by 2024/5. But the "new" figure is just 31,500 new posts comprising 14,000 newly trained nurses, 5,000 nursing apprentices and 12,500 nurses from overseas.
The remaining 18,500 will be nurses who have been persuaded not to leave the profession or have returned to practice after a career break.
Pressed on the figure, Nicky Morgan, the Culture secretary, admitted that some people had thought the pledge meant 50,000 new nurses will be hired.
Unveiling a campaign poster in Westminster, Ms Morgan said: "I think there's been a confusion sometimes, people reading that as 50,000 new nurses."

I think it's deliberately misleading as they know the headline will be "50,000 more nurses". But that is how campaigns are done - great sounding headline pledge, various caveats begins it.

I don't think there will be any more nurses unless the bursary is reinstated. Just watched the clip of this morning with Piers Morgan and Nicky Morgan, she makes no sense at all!

I think it's deliberately misleading as they know the headline will be "50,000 more nurses". But that is how campaigns are done - great sounding headline pledge, various caveats begins it

Matt Hancock said there would be 330,000 nurses.

Don't know why that posted twice.

The maths does add up. 280,000 plus 31,500 new posts = 311,500. Plus the 18,500 retained staff = 330,000.

The maths does add up. 280,000 plus 31,500 new posts = 311,500. Plus the 18,500 retained staff = 330,000

If they had left, there would be 265,000 staff

Johnson is a lying cunt (to put it nicely). Why does this surprise you?

What I'm assuming they've done to calculate the retained nurses bit it is look at how many nurses there would be if they kept leaving at the current rate, then aim to reduce the number that leave so there are more nurses than there would be if the nurses left. I agree it's dodgy and misleading, and I'm definitely not a Tory voter.

I think Piers and Susannah exposed this for what it is. They've redefined the word, "more".

Scotinthenorth it was the lib Dems that said they'd scrap tuition fees and then didn't do it, not labour.

No, you're right. I was getting confused. I shall blame my 5 month old for keeping me up all night