To think this question is irrelevant and out of order?

[Blacksheepcat]

DD has just submitted her UCAS application and after submitting she let me read through (I had already read her personal statement previously). There was a question asking sexuality!!! She had put heterosexual (she’s always told me she identifies as bi-sexual). I asked “why have you put that”? and she said “I didn’t want to answer it really and I definitely didn’t want all my teachers seeing my answers” so she basically put what she thought was the ‘normal’ and ‘acceptable’ answer. I told her she could have left it blank if she wanted...AIBU to think this question is outrageous, irrelevant and none of their damn business? If it’s just for ‘data reasons’ then they have not got an accurate answer anyway as she has just given the ‘normal’ answer she thought they were looking for. Seriously saddened and disappointed that they would even ask this question from vulnerable young people who are still discovering themselves and maybe still unsure. It has absolutely no bearing on their a academic ability?
In my whole life, I have never, in college or job applications, interviews, or anything been asked my sexual preferences and if I was I would obviously say MYOB.

Honestly, if you were at a job interview and they asked you if you prefer sleeping with men or women, or both, would you really find that acceptable? That question is for all the people saying it’s ‘standard practice these days’

It's quite often asked at application, but normally separated and not sent with the application, which is fine. And you don't have to answer it. Someone asking me in the interview, no. It's not their business.

I can see your point if the information is not separated. It should be.

But widening participation and equality is not just about people who accept offers...

There is a question on thebfirm for them to say if they are happy for college to see application and presumably alternative arrangements are made if they are not.

I can't understand why she thinks her tutor or whoever views the form would not keep the information confidential. That is the real issue here.

@alexdgr8 that was a bad experience, I see that. But how else do you expect organisations to gather that data, if not through a self completed form that also has the option of "I prefer not to say". What other way is there?

OP why will her college see it, I mean that bit?

Just restating that’s partly why I’m against these things. Not just why tf anyone needs to know but also, the idea that we’re supposed to trust things are kept confidential.

@alexdgr8. It sounds that organisation have the least excuse for needing to know that info.

Her sexual preferences though are not ‘special needs’ and she doesn’t need help or counselling as they are perfectly normal.

She doesn't need help but thinks her sexuality is not 'normal' and worries about her teachers finding out?

It's for statistical reasons and has been on every job application I've made in the last few years. TBH I'm happy when I don't have to tick 'prefer not to say' as my sexuality isn't always listed.

Of course it would be rude and intrusive to ask such questions in a face to face interview for a job or university interview. That's why institutions try to gather this data via separate forms (and, yes, it's a bit hit and miss because not everyone will want to answer.) It's also rude and intrusive to make assumptions - you can't actually tell a person's sexual orientation by looking at them or having a chat with them, without asking. You can't, actually, be sure of someone's ethnic background by looking at them, on the whole. And if one of the categories you are checking is disability, you definitely can't identify many disablities without asking the person concerned. That person you see using a wheelchair may have a lifelong mobility issue - or they may have been in a car crash from which they haven't fully recovered yet. You won't know unless you ask.

She has had a boyfriend all her time at college so all her tutors think of her as heterosexual. She didn’t want them to know otherwise, hence her putting that answer (again, she did not see or realise she could choose to NOT answer).

So what's the problem then?

Her sexual preferences though are not ‘special needs’ and she doesn’t need help or counselling as they are perfectly normal.

Bully for her, now would you like to take a moment to think about the other students who aren't so lucky?

And actually, you might see her sexual preferences as perfectly normal but it doesn't really sound as though she does at this stage in her life.

Op this is none of your business. My DC was he complete opposite, filled in as hetro until the last minute then changed to Bi.

Who cares, it makes no difference what so ever. Let sleeping dogs lie.

OP being told to mind her own when these organisations won’t do that.

@carolinelucaseshandbag

You said

An organisation should reflect the population in general. If 2% of the population identifies as LGBT but only 0.1 % of uni applications are from this group, then they can work towards ensuring this is not due to unconscious discrimination etc.
What are you not getting here?!!

But....

If no one states their sexuality on their application and just gets a place offered on merit alone then there is no way they could possibly be discriminating is there?

Are you suggesting they would offer places to LGBTQ+ applicants, who may not warrant a place on merit, just to get their percentages up?

If an application didn’t require you to state your colour, religion, gender etc...they could never be guilty of discriminating, which is why they advise you to not put your age on your CV these days so they can’t be ageist.

LGBTQ equality surely means that you don’t have ask? It’s irrelevant...you get your uni offer or job offer on your abilities, qualifications, experience. Nothing else is relevant.

You sound a bit naive, OP. Of course, equality means that your sexuality/race/gender/disability shouldn't matter, but admissions tutors and recruiters will all have unconscious biases which may affect their decision-making. These stats are collected in order to monitor applications/offers/conversions from different cohorts in order to ensure that specific groups are not being disadvantaged. That is, to ensure that offers are based on abilities, qualifications and experience, and nothing else.

It's easy to say that the process should be fair, but impossible to know whether or not it is fair without monitoring the numbers.

Those making the decisions will not have access to this data, as that would defeat the object of collecting it in the first place. It is all anonymised and aggregated for monitoring purposes.

It's a shame that your dd felt that she had to lie. It's likely that she will encounter lots of these forms in the future, so it might be worth having a chat with her about what's involved so that she can consider how she wishes to respond in the future.

If an application didn’t require you to state your colour, religion, gender etc...they could never be guilty of discriminating, which is why they advise you to not put your age on your CV these days so they can’t be ageist.

Sorry, OP, but this is just wrong. There are often clues about ethnicity, age, religion and gender in an application form. Also, what about interviews etc.

It would be great if everything was fair but it isn't. And universities/employers need to be able to identify any patterns of unfairness before they can begin to address them.

@Walkingdeadfangirl
Since I gave birth, my child and her welfare has been, and will always be my business.
If you think it makes no difference, that’s great, I agree! There’s no need for them to know then is there!

OP being told to mind her own when these organisations won’t do that.

Why do you say that?

The questions are completely optional.

It's not the fault of UCAS if the OP's DD didn't read the bit that told her that

There’s no need for them to know then is there!

You've had it explained to you countless times why the (optional to answer) question is asked.

If you won't accept the reasoning then why not take it up with UCAS?

And actually if you're so intent of taking offence on behalf of your DD and refusing to understand why the data is gathered, I wonder if that has anything to do with why your DD feels uncomfortable being open about her sexuality?

It might not be of course, but it's perhaps something for you to think about?

If she's grown used to you overreacting to something as simple as an optional and very common data question, perhaps it's having an effect on her inwardly and you don't realise it?

@WorraLiberty

As I’ve explained, many times, she did not see anything that said ‘optional to answer’. If she is asked a question on an application, her natural response is to answer it. Obviously I’ll have to teach her otherwise. I was merely asking if the question should be on there at all and 60% of people agree with me that I ANBU.
You don’t agree, fine but no need to get so aggressive.
The application is submitted and her answer to that question won’t make a blind bit of difference...I just wanted to know if people thought it was reasonable to ask that question of young people, under 18’s, on an academic application, that is all.
You think it’s reasonable, that’s fine. I don’t, that’s fine.

The form and the separate guidance are absolutely crystal clear about this to the point of being boringly repetitive. Each diversity monitoring question has a ‘Prefer not to say’ option and the applicant is alerted to this option, along with a sentence saying the question is optional. This is all preceded by a section explaining that the section is optional and that the data won’t be used until after an admission decisions are made etc. It’s all blindingly, blindingly clear. Seriously, your daughter is either not telling you the truth or should not be completing the form unaided if she thinks it wasn’t clear that these questions are optional.

maybe bi was a teenage phase and she no longer identifies as such.
sounds like this concept would disappoint you.
maybe you were not suppose to see her true response.

In my whole life, I have never, in college or job applications, interviews, or anything been asked my sexual preferences and if I was I would obviously say MYOB.

I have, in every application for at least the last 15 years.

It's for employers/educational institutions to monitor equality, diversity & inclusion. UCAS should be stating explicitly that the information won't be seen by the applicant's school/college, though. The receiving institutions don't see data for individual students: just the aggregated data for the cohort.

If no one states their sexuality on their application and just gets a place offered on merit alone then there is no way they could possibly be discriminating is there?

And if no one from the LGBTQ community, is applying for that university, they will want to look at that. Do these people not feel this is somewhere they can live? If so, why?

Its not kept with your daughters application, so doesnt impact her application at all.

It is an absolutely standard question. I think this data should be gathered to help Office for Students (and the wider public) understand and identify where universities aren't doing enough to encourage applicants from all demographics and to help universities anticipate the diversity of their students. If you haven't seen it there's a very good recent report into some particular challenges faced by LGBT+ students here:
trendence.co.uk/downloads/out-and-proud
It's the same reason things like the gender pay gap are reported, it's too easy to assume/pretend there's no problems if it's not monitored and transparent

However, in terms of the form, I think it should have a prefer not to say option and I think it should also have a very clear explanation of why the data is collected and who is shared with, especially as the majority of UCAS applicants will be young and unused to filling in these kinds of forms.

It's really sad that your daughter didn't feel able to be honest and I can understand you're angry about that.

Worth mentioning to the school that they should talk about that section of the form and explain that people can leave it blank when they are preparing students for UCAS applications (obviously without mentioning anything specific about your daughter's answers), or raising it directly with UCAS

I check 100s of UCAS applications at my school. I have never seen or checked that section.