To ask how you can live with yourself if you use Amazon

[paperbeatsrock]

Just kidding! All those political threads asking how people can possibly vote for X or Y must be getting to me.

I use Amazon. (While I’m frequently ordering from a vendor rather than Amazon themselves, Bezos still gets his cut.) Yet, the more I read about them, the more I realise I’m part of the problem. So I guess my question is, do you have stern words with yourself for using them, but keep doing it anyway?

Laurie Marlow - people justifying Amazon use for nothing much really doesn't understand the reality of how this forces workers to live.

I love amazon, it's just too good a service to feel guilty about using it, and I have it set up so that it donates to a small charity I support with every purchase I make.

The tax thing I don't see as my problem, whatever they're doing is obviously legal, and it's not like they don't do anything at all to contribute to the tax take in this country. They do.

The environmental impact of the deliveries is no worse than me going to the shops to buy stuff, and it when it costs so significantly less by the time you've thought about petrol and parking, spending money on something unnecessary isn't a luxury I can afford.

The only thing that I don't like is the packaging, but I reuse as much as possible.

I get second hand books from
world of books which I don't think is affiliated with any of the big online companies. It does offer paypal which I should also really try to wean myself off, but it is so handy.
I used to use Abebooks .
I have just looked it up and both companies have a reseller agreement with Amazon. But you can buy the books from their own websites.

The reality is that things are changing. Organisations will have to learn how to manage this change so that it's healthier for the planet, but bricks and mortor shops will be needing to change. Warehouses and deliveries are the way forward.

But does change have to come at such cost to poorly paid and badly treated people?

This seems to be conflating different issues - shopping has changed and online shopping isn't going away nor should it have to. But online retailers and online purchasers can choose not to treat people like shit in order to offer or benefit from a service.

World of books is a useful.other choice for second hand books.

Hadn't heard of kobo, will look into that.

World of Books have a shop on eBay, I usually just buy through eBay for them and Music Magpie as it is easy if you already have an eBay account

What I don't like about the business models of Amazon, Uber etc is the way they flood the market, undercut their competitors & then once they have the monopoly increase their prices as sooner or later then need to make a profit.

You mean like the supermarkets and chain stores did back in the 80s and 90s to get rid of small independent shops?

I am wondering what people actually buy off Amazon on a weekly basis?

Text/revision books for my son - next day delivery compared with waiting a few days when ordered via Waterstones and then wasting an hour of my life and parking/petrol costs to go and collect it from town.

Light bulbs, small household tools, household appliances - far easier to get exactly what I want rather than traipsing around several different shops only to find they're out of stock.

Office supplies for my small business - fax rolls, envelopes, copier paper, printer cartridges, pens/pencils, storage drives, USB sticks, printers, computers, scanners - it's a "one stop" shop meaning I don't waste valuable working time looking at several different websites for different things.

Occasional items, presents etc. Good to be able to buy stuff and then send it back for refund/replacement easily if I don't like it or it's faulty etc. Far better than having arguments with stroppy High St store staff (Argos and Currys I'm looking at you) who refuse to honour their own firm's refund policies.

I use Amazon as I can rarely find what I actually want in my local physical shops. The physical shops seems to be full of overpriced poor quality tat that I don't want, or if they do something in the range that I want, they will never have the latest products or some of the older ones.

I also use PayPal as it gives me protections that I wouldn't normally get for using a debit card online instead of a credit card.

Yorkshire Tea
Stuffing Mix
Gravy granules
Golden Syrup
Black Treacle

was my last Amazon parcel. 480 teabags and 6 packs of everything else. To Italy where 20 wanky weak Lipton's teabags would cost me €3 and the 480 cost me €21.

I agree with @Bollykecks he should be held accountable to pay his taxes. Who is letting him off?

I agree that it would be impossible for me to live without online shopping but you can in most cases not use Amazon.

You can. But it’s hard to deny the power of the one stop shop and its ease of use.

Avoiding amazon involves significantly more time searching for stuff and significantly more admin.

That’s not to say I don’t feel conflicted about it. But it’s easy to see why people end up using it.

you can in most cases not use Amazon.
of course you can, but I don't want to - when they are the cheapest and most convenient, why on earth would I use somewhere else.

Retailers need to step up their game.

I give you an example with clothes. I order mainly online to be delivered to the shop if there's one down my office, so I am sure what I want is there, I can try it on in the store, and return or take home with me.
New Look doesn't accept return on the same day you collected the order. How stupid is that? I buy somewhere else now, what's the point of lugging the parcel home and returning it the same day.

I do not use Amazon. Be a bit more organised and shop around.

I can be as organised as I like, but it still won't get me to the local shops by 5pm when I don't finish work until 6. Sure, I could shop on another website, but once you factor in delivery charges, waiting in for multiple orders (as opposed to just one from Amazon) or having to collect them from the post office/delivery depot - it's just more hassle than it's worth.

People can speak about morals all they like, but not many people are going to spend more money and waste more of their time unless they have absolutely no choice.

Amazon often sends multiple packages.

I disagree on the morals - we do have the choice to use another website and most of us can do so at least sometimes. I don't see that my time and money is always more important than another person's terrible experience of work. Most of us can afford that additional fiver in delivery and should bother.

than another person's terrible experience of work.

How do we know that other online companies treat employees any better? Or that if they didn’t work for Amazon, they’d have a job with better conditions?

Workers rights are being eroded all over the place. It’s not just Amazon (by a long shot)

of course you can, but I don't want to - when they are the cheapest and most convenient, why on earth would I use somewhere else.

I personally don't find them any more convenient or cheaper than John Lewis, Ebay or Argos & find it easier to refund John Lewis stuff. However I recognise that I live near a Waitrose & Argos.

I use them. The one day or even same day delivery cannot be beaten. Other companies offer next day delivery, sure but they usually have an extortionate surcharge for it. I lead a busy life, sometimes I need next day delivery when I have forgotten something urgent.

I found with Amazon was that frequently same day delivery & even next day delivery was not available unless I was buying books. I buy them 2nd hand on eBay now. Plus the delivery isn't free when you pay a prime subscription & often the p&p is built into the cost.

I rarely leave home, so it is a godsend for me. I don't travel even in a car for up to two months at a time. I also save the boxes for homework projects, crafts found on YouTube and Pinterest and I save multiple items I want in my basket and will buy at the end of the week. This way I am not impulse buying and most of the time all the items are sent in one box of they are from same seller or Amazon themselves.

One other thing I wanted to mention is that at this time of year Amazon recruits a huge number of extra warehouse workers, and (in my experience) they rely on local jobcentres to send many of them. Of course it isn't 'obligatory', but if you don't then you could well be sanctioned and lose benefits as you are considered to be not making an effort to find work. This is regardless of how easy it might be for you to travel to the warehouse.

This has in the past led to the situation described by the Independent in 2016. Here is the link:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amazon-workers-sleep-tents-dunfermline-fife-scotland-a7467657.html

Of course it isn't 'obligatory', but if you don't then you could well be sanctioned and lose benefits as you are considered to be not making an effort to find work.

Surely though that’s an issue for UK employment law and the benefits system to fix.

If it’s not Amazon taking advantage, it will be someone else.

Most of us can afford that additional fiver in delivery and should bother.

I think it really depends on where you live. I don't live anywhere near most major chains, so if I order online, I need to be able to return via post for free because I can't always get to the shop in time, and I don't want to pay £5 for delivery and then potentially another £5 to return things that aren't suitable. On the other hand, Amazon offer me free returns via the Post Office which is just over the road from where I work.

I could order from John Lewis, but the closest store is about a 90 minute drive away. I could order from Argos, but the closest shop is 45 minutes away. Living rurally creates added problems as you can't just pop into town to return/exchange things without it costing you a small fortune. If I wanted to return something to my local John Lewis, it would take me three hours just in travel time alone - that's not including my fuel costs or parking costs. If it was just around the corner and I could go in my lunch break, I might well shop there more - but it isn't.