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AIBU?

To ask for guidance on my vote with a few questions? Sort of a politics for dummies!

40 replies

faithandrob · 26/11/2019 09:13

Hopefully I don't come across as a goody arse. I've had a lot of consuming and devastating stuff going on in my personal life that I haven't really had the head to analyse politics much Blush but I'd like to vote.

Basically, my stance is this - I think I would vote Conservative but I'm worried about the NHS being privatised under them and worry about their actions concerning leaving the EU. They also seem quite 'tight' but my head tells me this is for the best since we simply don't have the cash as a country.

I like labour and I feel okay about Jeremy C. However, I'm fearful they'll be the downfall of the entire country for one main reason - Where on earth are they funding these promises and extras from? Yes I know they want to increase tax on those earning over £80k or business owners, but what else? Surely this won't cover everything they seem so sure they can afford to do as a country? DH also says JC is a terrorist sympathiser. Can this really be disproven and debunked?

Thank you for anyone willing to reply Thanks

OP posts:
Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:20

Brexit will dominate the next Parliament whoecer you vote for.

So you vote for Tory. They won't agree a trade deal and if you believe them we will leave with No deal at end of transition period.

We will then have to deal with the consequences of NO deal which will take years and will cost us a significant amount financially.

Vote tactically for the candidate who has the best chance that is not Tory or BXP. We will then hopefully get a referendum.

Labour are not going to win a majority. At best they will get a Hung Parliament. I doubt a labour minority government would survive a full term.

They will not have the opportunity to implement all their policies. Hopefully though they will manage to get money in to education, health, social care etc.

I see this as a vote purely for Brexit. Get rid of the Tories, either stop Brexit or get a sensible Brexit and then move forward.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 26/11/2019 09:21

In short, Boris has acknowledged that the NHS need support (I saw this on QT a few days ago) but that he can't get more money for the NHS until Brexit is done. Not really sure on the privatisation but I guess we all just remain hopeful that it doesn't come to that.

Labour want to borrow a LOT of money.
My concern with this is that we will be indebted to countries who will basically have control over us because we'll never be able to afford to pay £1trillion back with Labour’s proposals.

I am voting Tory though so am aware I've posted a slightly biased response (although it is factual too)

GiveHerHellFromUs · 26/11/2019 09:22

@Random18 why can't you just help someone make an educated decision rather than trying to ram your opinion down their throats?

Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:24

Give When will Brexit be done?

The NHS needs money now.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 26/11/2019 09:26

@Random18 well it could've been done 12 months ago if Labour hadn't fucked about. It'll be at least another 12 months if Labour get in to power.

Labour have chucked money at the NHS before and nothing change. The whole NHS management structure needs a complete overhaul.

Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:27

Give Brexit ain't going to be done for a very long time, even with a whopping Tory majority.

This is the easy bit.........

HRH2020 · 26/11/2019 09:28

I am voting labour even though I can see some of their plans (nationalisation) are bonkers - I don't think they will get enough of a majority to implement their more far out ideas; however our services desperately need investment

I cannot trust Boris Johnson after the sky bridge /proroguing parliament and think he would try and get through no deal by any means necessary which would be devastating for the economy

Have you looked into Lib Dem's policy? A lot of people I know are going "middle ground" this time

Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:31

Give I don't agree with Labours spending plans.

But I don't see that they will actually get the opportunity to implement most of them.

Enb76 · 26/11/2019 09:31

Conservative - definite Brexit, GRA thrown into the long grass, bunch of wankers who know they are wankers
Labour - uncertain Brexit, uncertain on women, bunch of wankers who think they're not wankers
Lib Dems - cancel Brexit, throw women under a bus, bunch of wankers who pretend they're not wankers.

Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:31

HRH look at an article in the independent today.

Scary stuff.......

JassyRadlett · 26/11/2019 09:32

@Random18 well it could've been done 12 months ago if Labour hadn't fucked about.

I’m always curious why this charge is levelled against Labour but not against the Conservatives who voted against May’s deal. Many of whom are now in the Cabinet.

MrsMaiselsMuff · 26/11/2019 09:32

I can't see anything wrong with Random's post.

Johnson still has no idea what his Brexit will look like. The withdrawal agreement is only the first step - it's not getting Brexit done at all. What will follow is a lengthy period of negotiations that could leave us back at no deal. That's a scary place for all but the very wealthy.

Labour has a lot of plans, but they're not all going to happen at once. The main priority is the NHS, without question. Then you've got investment in education, in the regions, and these in turn will generate revenue. With that revenue comes the lower priority plans.

Brexit is not going to free up money for the NHS, if anything it will mean less money for public services. Every analysis of the Brexit plans shows it will cost us more than we save, and Johnson's plan will be even more costly than May's. He voted against May's plan, so if he didn't believe in that we can be certain that he doesn't really believe in his own.

Random18 · 26/11/2019 09:35

mrsmaisie I am not advocating the Tories Hmm

ThatUserNamesTakenTryAnother · 26/11/2019 09:38

Labours manifesto is fully costed.

Basically vote Labour if want an NHS, fair benefits, less homeless and in poverty and not to work until your 75.

Think about it.... Tories 'found' 40 odd billion to give to the banks.....

Voting tory is voting your quality and everyone else's quality of life away.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 26/11/2019 09:40

It's a difficult one because in reality both parties are very financially constrained and neither will be able to keep all their promises. The tricky thing for the Conservatives is that they are supposed to be all about sound economics, but most economists predict that Brexit will be very bad for the UK economy and no deal will be worst of all. So no party can keep all the promises they make. The Conservatives may "get Brexit done" but it will come at a huge economic cost. While Labour are not really any more convincing, they are dithering over Brexit and it's not all clear how they will fund all their other plans either. Sorry no straightforward answers for you!

obanoban · 26/11/2019 09:44

Corbyn will literally bankrupt the country. Private businesses have to compete with businesses in other countries. The corporation rate in Ireland is 12.5%. Corbyn wants to put it up to 26%. Any business that can move to Ireland will move to Ireland. The ones that have to stay will be left to carry the burden of all Corbyn's spending plans. Many will go bust. Please don't vote Corbyn. Without a healthy growing private sector there is no money for the NHS.

mencken · 26/11/2019 09:47

I don't recall a previous election where the two most likely candidates for PM were both evidenced racists with no statesman-like qualities at all.

yes, I know we don't vote for a president - but in practice if you support your candidate for the 'x' party then you are supporting that party's leader as PM.

it is a serious case of 'least worst'. All I can say is vote, and vote for who you support most (or detest least) regardless of what the rest of your constituency does.

MarieG10 · 26/11/2019 09:48

The NHS has existed for a lot more years under conservative government than any other and hasn't been "privatised" yet.

The whole thing is really a misnomer. Private provision and supply has always existed in the NHS in various forms, whether GP services or operations being outsourced to Bupa to get waiting lists down. Also a lot of services are provided from outside. The simple fact is the NHS has to have some extent of private provision as it doesn't have the expertise or volume for some aspects. Drug provision for eg. Corbyn and Ashworth are just totally idiots if they think they can set up a state drug company. The government can't even procure decent IT systems let alone make complex drugs!

What I would see as privatisation is hospitals being sold off wholesale and a private commercial market set up....oh but be aware that the last Labour government (and the conservatives continued it) the practice of building hospitals using PFI which is private companies building and running the hospital premises which has been the biggest utter rip off to the public I have ever seen

The reality for the NHS is that if an arms length management could run and restructure it without political involvement the whole thing would be run a lot better but the chance of that is nil currently with the fanciful claims being made from both sides in reality...Corbyn with his stupid claims of American drunk companies tripling their charges under a free trade agreement and Boris with his 50000 new nurses when there are already 40000 funded vacancies

The bigger question is could you trust Corbyn to run a raffle let alone the NHS when on a whim he makes an announcement to spend £59billion on pensions which is totally unfunded.

If you want an unbiased view of this, have a read through some of the publications from the Institute for Fiscal Studies who are independent, respected and impartial.

GingerPCatt · 26/11/2019 09:49

If the NHS figures into your vote, have a look at The Kings Fund. The King's Fund is an independent charity working to improve health and care in England. They’ve released statements looking at the various manifestos. www.kingsfund.org.uk/

MarieG10 · 26/11/2019 09:49

Sorry drug companies as opposed to drunk !!

PrincessSarene · 26/11/2019 09:50

OP, as you can probably tell from previous responses, it’s really difficult for individuals to be able to give you answers that aren’t biased by their own opinions (and is why I’m not going to give mine!). There is a useful independent site that has fact checking of the Conservative and Labour manifestos, and also covers other topics such as both sides claims for how the other has handled national debt and the budget deficit. Link here: fullfact.org/election-2019/

Rhubarbcrumblerules · 26/11/2019 09:58

a handy guide to compare all parties on all policies
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50291676

Random18 · 26/11/2019 10:07

I would be wary of the BBC..............

ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave · 26/11/2019 10:23

You might find this website useful. Independent and non-partisan.

//www.fullfact.org

So they will tell you, for example and in reply to your concerns, that there is no evidence that the NHS is being privatised. Yesterday they ran a fact check on Labours broadband promise. That explains the fact the Labour have underestimated their broadband cost expenditure by several hundred million..... which was very, very interesting. Labour has since modified it's estimates !

They have also fact checked both manifesto's in detail.

ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave · 26/11/2019 10:25

//www.kingsfund.org.uk have also done an analysis of the NHS 10 year plan.

I see two pp's have referenced these two sites as well.

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