To ask for guidance on my vote with a few questions? Sort of a politics for dummies!

[faithandrob]

Hopefully I don't come across as a goody arse. I've had a lot of consuming and devastating stuff going on in my personal life that I haven't really had the head to analyse politics much but I'd like to vote.

Basically, my stance is this - I think I would vote Conservative but I'm worried about the NHS being privatised under them and worry about their actions concerning leaving the EU. They also seem quite 'tight' but my head tells me this is for the best since we simply don't have the cash as a country.

I like labour and I feel okay about Jeremy C. However, I'm fearful they'll be the downfall of the entire country for one main reason - Where on earth are they funding these promises and extras from? Yes I know they want to increase tax on those earning over £80k or business owners, but what else? Surely this won't cover everything they seem so sure they can afford to do as a country? DH also says JC is a terrorist sympathiser. Can this really be disproven and debunked?

Thank you for anyone willing to reply

Basically vote Labour if want an NHS, fair benefits, less homeless and in poverty and not to work until your 75.

This is my problem with Labour and what I get an instinctive feeling from - They have a lot of great ideas and yes they sound great, but at what financial cost? Can we afford all of this as a country, really?

I genuinely feel as if they'll bankrupt the country

faithandrob Exactly. That's what is scary about the "costed" labour manifesto. It is already falling apart, see the Broadband underestimate, literally hundreds of millions out.......

Be wary of what you read anywhere, we tend to believe what we want to believe, 1984 is going strong...

Actually, as Winston was aware, the chocolate ration was to be reduced from thirty grammes to twenty at the end of the present week. ... It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week.

Remember the banking crisis of 2007/8 when the banks almost collapsed, all Gordon Browns fault for not enforcing monitoring. When previously we'd all been telling him to keep his nose out as the banks were making good profits (based on selling each other the same debts over and over). The civil service has poor IT yet prior to Mrs T the civil service had its own college and training program producing it professionals and good systems, these tasks we were told could be done better by industry and the rot set in (it was an easy way to make money for the companies as by then we took what we got and believed it must be better as private industry had done it).

Soon we'll leave the EU and while there may be no wholemeal privatisation of the NHS I expect individual areas to be opened up for commercial work (the ones companies think they can make money on). We'll have nice cheap yummy chlorinated chicken, growth enhanced beef and GM vegetables courtesy of our trade with the US.

The NHS needs money now.

A few years to wait with Labour then;

"£26bn additional funding for the NHS in England by 2023-24"

@faithandrob

Can we afford all of this as a country, really?
I genuinely feel as if they'll bankrupt the country

It is really important that you understand that a country's finances are nothing like a household budget. It's a myth peddled to justify 'austerity' which is really only a byword for the Tory principle of reducing the size of the state. See this explanation for example:
neweconomics.org/2018/10/a-government-is-not-a-household.

If things like the NHS, policing, and a supportive welfare state are important to you, then voting Labour would make more sense. I'm not suggesting they'll make those things suddenly and magically perfect, but they'll almost certainly do less harm than the Tories will.

@DontMakeMeShushYou

It is really important that you understand that a country's finances are nothing like a household budget. It's a myth peddled to justify 'austerity' which is really only a byword for the Tory principle of reducing the size of the state.

Suggest you take more note of what the Institute of Fiscal Studies say, that independent and impartial respected organisation who commented on the incredulity of the Labour manifest.

If Labour did ever make it better, would that include our Jewish friends who Labour don't seem keen on?

The NHS is a red herring to detract from other issues.

1. Brexit - nobody reckoned that the country would, narrowly, vote to leave. All parties were caught on the hop, especially the leavers.
2. The NHS was never set up or intended to cover the wide remit it has today. It should be possible to "scale back" the basic services and ring fence them as something to which everyone (eligible) has a right. I would be in favour of having an additional insurance component for those wishing to avail of services over and above the "basics".
3. Anything else is just political posturing. Sadly the voting public's memory is remarkably short-lived with incumbent governments being blamed for policies that were instigated years, if not decades, earlier.
4. Taxes - you cannot increase or decrease taxes without a healthy economy. People need to feel that they have a degree of autonomy over their personal spending. There is a whole generation that has "benefited" from the 1997 to 2010 benefit culture, that essentially makes people dependent on the state - and at its mercy.
5. General elections shouldn't be a personal popularity contest (we are not yet the USA). Look at the candidates in your constituency and decide who would do the best for your area. Vote accordingly.

PS. Why is the Mumsnet spellchecker calibrated for US English? Should this tell us something???

I really, really wouldn't base your vote on what random people on MN say, OP (assuming your OP was genuine) : elsewhere, there are threads on lack of critical thinking skills (oozing with confirmation bias), the selling off the NHS to America under the Tories, lots of JC worship/anti-Momentun threads - whatever. You aren't going to find "facts" here, from nearly anyone (not even me-I'm a Marxist economist irl, and our facts are what we tell you they are )

There is, though, lots of propaganda on all sides, supported by ill-informed soundbites and a generally low level of economic and political literacy. There's also a lot of people who could never be friends with someone who voted Labour/Tory/Remain/Leave etc which makes me think that their original position has come from dogma and tribalism, not an assessment of the world they'd like to see, and an understanding of the policies that will allow us to achieve that.

I have just decided to put myself on an MN time out until Christmas, on the grounds that's it's ridiculous to allow myself to be wound up by random people on the internet - I only ever came here for the indoor slugs

Agree you shouldn't base your vote on Mumsnet opinion although the media is horrendously biased towards Johnson - today the whole focus is on anti-semitism in Labour while the report on child poverty under the Tories has been buried.

If I were you I'd read a few quality papers for balance (Times/Guardian/Independent/ any quality local paper) and watch some political programmes again across the board - Channel 4 news/Newsnight/Dispatches etc.

At the end of the day voting is about what you think is right and your own views on Brexit/NHS/public spending etc.

(I really do like Labour's commitment to the Waspi women though :) )

@MarieG10

Which part of
It is really important that you understand that a country's finances are nothing like a household budget. It's a myth peddled to justify 'austerity' which is really only a byword for the Tory principle of reducing the size of the state.
are you suggesting the IFS disagree with? Since this is the part of my post you quoted, I assume this is the part you have a problem with. Do provide a link if you can find one.

Brexit. Even a good brexit will likely lead to instability for many's finances in the short to medium term. Those most likely to benefit are already rich.

NHS The tories have already been filtering off bits into private hands. This will not benefit most of us, only a few people, like tory ministers who have financial interests in private health care.

'tight' but my head tells me this is for the best since we simply don't have the cash as a country. we are an exceedingly rich country. Whatever problems we have it's not because the UK, as a country is poor.

how will Labour get the money/ ruin the country When the tories make cuts to council budgets, cuts to services, cuts to benefits it can cost more money than it saves. For instance they cut staff at the HMRC dept that collects taxes from tax shy companies, so for the sake of a salary of £25k or whatever you might lose out on £1m taxes collected. When you move responsibility to councils but cut their budgets by 50% then they have little option but to cut services. When you cut, say youth services, you get more youths in trouble with the law (even if we are callous enought to not care about lives lost ) it is very expensive to keep people in prison. When people can't afford to live safe and warm with enough food or are homeless they are more likely to fall ill or suffer mental health issues which then cost the NHS more money. Money spent on preventative measurses saves money (and suffering, for those that care about that) down the line.

DH also says JC is a terrorist sympathiser. Can this really be disproven and debunked? 1. terrorism doesn't come from nowhere, it is normally rooted in a genuine grievance over a long period. 2. 'The Troubles' in NI lasted for decades and were ended after the govt sat down with the IRA and forged peace. Corbyn is anti-war. Why people see this as a criticism, I don't know.

uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-british-uk-media-news-bias-tories-labour-a9209026.html

Where do you get your news from? Is it giving you a rounded picture?

DH also says JC is a terrorist sympathiser. Can this really be disproven and debunked?

You can look up the allegations online and see what they based on, and see the arguments either way. Some (extreme) allegations have been debunked, others remain. You will need to make up your own mind.

yes, I know we don't vote for a president - but in practice if you support your candidate for the 'x' party then you are supporting that party's leader as PM.

Indeed. We are not just voting for a menu of policies, we are also voting for the person who will lead our country, which is still one of the richest and most important in the world.

Never in my lifetime has the country been presented with a worse choice of PM. Johnson is amoral, dishonest and completely untrustworthy. Corbyn would be hopelessly and dangerously out of his depth as PM.

We deserve better.