...to say that birth plans contribute to womens unhappiness around labour?

[CAG12]

Ive read a lot of threads and a great deal of women seem to be unhappy because they didnt get to stick to their birth plan, for many reasons spanning from medical to facilities not available etc. Should women be encouraged to have a loose plan of how they want their labour but also encouraged not to set their heart on it?

Im 23 weeks pregnant and I know ill be asked about my birth plan soon by my midwife. Just gathering opinion! Thanks for reading

I agree. When you get into the detail that MW and HCP are banned from using certain words you need to back away and calm down.

People saying there is no point to a plan and the only thing that matters is getting the baby out safely are wrong. The mother is the patient

I know what you are getting at, but this isn’t the right way to phrase it. The baby and the mother are both considered patients.

I wasn't given the opportunity to have one. I was told there weren't enough nurses on for a c section if it came to needing one.

my only plan was 'get baby out', literally didnt give a shit how,

I don’t get this at all - so high forceps, crash section, epidural or no epidural? All the same to you?

I agree.

I also agree that ‘birth preferences’ would be better. Mine was ‘gas and air, drugs and epidural ok, prefer no instruments’. Section was always a possibility due to twins so didn’t bother having a preference round that!

Third baby didn’t bother with anything.

@RiddleyW well that’s where we all differ isn’t it?

@RiddleyW my Birth plan was get baby out keep us alive.

If it gets to what you mentioned above I said let's just go with the flow.
Even with a birth plan they won't do anything without discussion. DH and I had had a chat about what I'd prefer but otherwise I was open to options.

By the third 9lb baby I was even less concerned about a plan.

People saying there is no point to a plan and the only thing that matters is getting the baby out safely are wrong. The mother is the patient

I don’t agree sorry . We all know that birth is high risk and unpredictable

We all know that in developing countries there is a Hugh rate of maternal mortality

And we all know people who have ended up with scary births .

So presenting a choice and a plan for births especially first births is just setting people
Up for disappointment

If we were more honest we would maybe have less disappointed people
Who Feel like a failure after a medicalised birth

When actually it’s ‘thank fuck for
Medical advancement ‘

My first birth plan was pretty much "no pethadine" That went down the pan after my waters were broken and my contractions went through the roof. The pethadine locked me into a world of pain, and the birth spiraled off to an EMCS and trips to HDU/ NICU for me and baby.

My second birth plan was detailed. NO PETHADINE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES in bold caps. I set out a starting point of active labour requesting support due to SPD. I referred to epidurals if I reached the point of being unable to be actively positioned. The flashbacks of being beached up on my back from first time round, feeling so wrong while everything spiralled out of control was something I wanted to do my best to avoid, and something I could so easily have ended up with with a high risk birth and compromised mobility.
While I ended up with birth injuries, using a birth plan and being clear about realistic starting points and feeling empowered meant that it was on balance a positive and healing experience.

A birth plan comes with no guarentees, but if one is realistic and gives a mother clarity on options and consent at times where she may be compromised, it is a valuable document.

Interesting - it seems from the comments that birth plans are very much a 1st time mum thing, with a lot of ladies who've had second or third babies not really making one, or making a very minimal one. I think this is down to experience though; they no what they want.

Basically mine only really has two points so far; no forceps, straight to c-section and I want to be able to move around during labour. Im sure ill think of more things though.

Basically mine only really has two points so far; no forceps, straight to c-section and I want to be able to move around during labour.

Are you aware that sometimes forceps are used during a c section? That your labour can have progressed too far for a c section? Or that you cannot move whilst having a c section?

My plan first time round was too be flexible and I ended up with PTSD symptoms. Second time round I was very well researched and had a detailed plan. Not everything was perfect but I broadly got the birth I wanted.

I've had three and didn't make one for any of them. I don't see the point of them, childbirth takes on a life of it's own and a birth plan just sets women up for failure.

CAG12 there is so much more to consider.

This is a great starting point

www.pinterandmartin.com/vbp

I should say im a nurse, ive watched birth and c-sections before. Im well aware the c-section is a surgical proceedure and not something that can happen whilst im wondering around.

Are you aware that sometimes forceps are used during a c section? That your labour can have progressed too far for a c section

Forceps usage though is actually pretty rare in other developed countries, the UK is an outlier on this. I’d suspect that they’d go to C-section earlier if the option for forceps was off the table?

I also understand that sometimes things progress too far for a c-section. However the tone ive got from this thread is that its birth preferences rather than a plan. Therefore id LIKE a c-section in leiu of having high up forceps used to try and see if they work. However I also know that wont happen. Thats kinda the point of this thread though.

Im also aware theres much more to consider, but I really only started thinking about it properly about 3 days ago. This thread has been very helpful in guiding me in some things.

*however im aware this might not happen

My only plan was 'get baby out', literally didnt give a shit.

Me too. I honestly didn't care what they did to me during either as long as the babies arrived safely.

Although for my second I did write EPIDURAL PLEASE in huge letters in the birth plan section - the only thing that I wrote! and I still had to beg for it

I also had a c section plan. I was booked in for an elective at 39 weeks if baby hadn’t made an appearance and my consultant who was booked to do the c section had oked the plan.

Actually, because of stories shared by women like @pallisers I explicitly denied consent for forceps unless there were absolutely no other options.

Many countries don’t use them at all.

I’d say the same re forceps

With my last labour dd did take too long due to epidural. Out last minute tg so just made it pre c section, but I’m glad in retrospect it wasn’t forceps they went for.

i think the benefits of a birth plan are so that the woman knows what the potential options are when it comes to it. However, given that no one knows what birth is like until you experience it, it’s impossible really to give instructions like ‘no pain relief, I’ll be hypnobirthing’, because once you experience the contractions you may find yourself demanding every drug known to medical science. With experience, you might decide on a more specific policy like no morphine or give me an epidural right away. But be aware, they might still just say ‘no, it’s not labour yet, let me run you a bath instead’ approximately 30 minutes before your baby is born....

I think it’s more important that your birth partner knows your wishes and is forceful enough to put your point across when you are not even able to complete a full swear word. There is no chance a midwife will know everyone’s individual birth plan so they’ll just monitor you the best they can.

And Whilst pallisers says you have a choice - a scared first time mother at 4 am after 2 days of pain isn’t really quite in the optimal position to exercise her choice

That's exactly what I was. If I had researched forceps delivery beforehand I would have asked if a section was possible or had my dh do it - I wouldn't have been a scared first time mother at 4 am presuming the doctor would be right - I would be an informed scared mother with a husband who knew what to ask. I nearly died, I had to have a blood transfusion, it affected my breastfeeding my son (thanks only to dh and the nurses that worked finally), and it affected my fertility afterwards. I am only lucky it didn't affect my bowel/bladder and sex life. others aren't so lucky.

I can't see any reason for someone to sneer at a plan in this situation. If the ob says "no too late for a section" well fair enough. But knowing forcepts weren't an option might have made the decision to section occur earlier.

On the one hand, they are good when you cannot communicate BUT they create an expectation which may be impossible to achieve, leaving hormonal new mums feeling a failure. Things happen, things that may be out of your control.