AIBU to go low contact with MIL...and how?!

[Quirkydays]

Could make this a very long story but will try and keep it short. Have been with DH for over 10 years and have always found his DM difficult. Since having a baby the relationship has worsened. I posted a few months ago (have NC to try and prevent outing) about an incident that happened over summer. The advice from MNetters was fairly unanimous - go low contact. Her behaviour is possessive and manipulative and this has all become heightened since DC has come on the scene.

We haven’t seen DHs family since this incident but DH has had lots of long phone calls with his parents to try and resolve the issues. The bottom line is - there is no resolving because they don’t recognise any fault in their ways and his DM excuses everything she does as misunderstanding her good intentions. So they have agreed to try and move the relationship forward and ‘agree to disagree’ effectively, with assurances that they won’t do the behaviours we don’t like.

However, I have pretty bad anxiety and for some reason I now get extremely worked up at the prospect of seeings PILs, speaking to them etc. I now obsess a lot about potential scenarios/how I’ll handle MIL if she’s being subtly manipulative etc etc. I really don’t want anything to do with her at all.

I recognise that I have to have something to do with her, because otherwise my DC won’t know them, but how can I have very minimal contact? There is a family whatsapp which has been unused for months (since the incident), but recently she’s been posting on there again. All cheery, light-hearted and as though nothing has ever happened. She’s also asked us to go on holiday with them next month, as though nothing has happened. My DH is supportive of me being low contact and knows that we won’t be going on holidays with them until we can be sure we can spend time with them in a positive way.

But whenever a whatsapp notification pops up on the family group I’m feeling pangs of anxiety and the knotting feeling in my stomach. If I leave the group it will cause WW3, because we’re meant to be ‘moving forward’.

What would you do? Thanks for reading if you got this far

@MummyBlogger23 yes it is sad that the childs grandmother has behaved that way and put the relationship in jeopardy.

If you do decide to stay in the group, you could manage feeling pressured to respond by using the blandest emoji you can find! Good old thumbs up or a smiley face. A heart/rainbow for something lovely. Etc.

Leave the group. Low contact does not involve you allowing someone to contact you constantly. Especially when it involves lots of people being aware that you don't reply.

Firstly good on you and OH for managing MIL. I have been low contact with my MIL and ILs for decades now and suits me well. I didn't marry his family, I have no responsibility either in ensuring that my children have a relationship with them either - that's my OHs job.

So remove yourself from What's App, if your OH wants to be on it great. If they ask, say that you havent got enough space on your phone for any more apps. Done.

Dont visit everytime, maybe once per year for large family gatherings only- that way you're not the focus.

Make it clear with OH that this is what you require and stick to it - I would put the matter of shared holidays just out of your life too just no, not now not ever.

@MummyBlogger23, grandmas can be toxic too

Possibly going against the grain but if you’ve agreed to disagree and to move forward, as you say, it seems she’s doing that but you aren’t really.

You say she’s pretending it never happened, that’s kind of what agreeing to disagree and just move forward means, isn’t it? How do you think she should be acting in it? (Genuine question, not a criticism) And is it wider family or just you and in laws?

Without knowing what the incident was it’s hard to say whether you’re reasonable or not to want to go low contact and whether your response to the WhatsApp is proportionate or not.

For what it’s worth im in a family WhatsApp group and only half the people in it ever use it and respond. I barely notice. But I guess that’s without the background of a falling out so not quite the same!

Hang on a minute. The woman is manipulative and generally a bad egg but you want your children to feel a bond with her? Do you not value your children's well-being? Are you using them as human shields so she might not kick off at you and DH? I really don't get this pushing children to be close to people who make their parent's lives hell. Why would you do that to them?

Why does your dc have to know them? Either they are nasty and should be kept away from the kids or you're being too sensitive about things. (I suspect the former rather than the latter) Just because they are related by blood, it doesn't mean that they are good for the kids.

Why can't your h see his parents without you instead? You can just see them when it's unavoidable (say a wedding of someone on your h's side)

Moving forward means pretending that the fall out didn't happen which is what your mil
Is doing.

If you can't move on (we don't know the history so no judgement here) then that is also ok. Some things are not forgivable or take time to forgive.

What did she do to you previously OP?

It’s hard to give a constructive answer without knowing the detail, really. If you have anxiety, then really you need to get treatment for that, and hiding from the things that trigger the anxiety will not be helpful in the long run.

On the other hand, if MIL’s conduct was truly awful, then you would be justified for having no contact at all. I don’t know how feasible this kind of halfway house thing is, where you want the conflict to go away, but are not willing to do your bit in mending bridges (not saying this isn’t justified - I don’t know the detail).

How best to achieve what you want kind of depends on what happened, and the personalities involved, and how they will respond. It may be that there is no perfect solution here that gives you a win, so concentrate on the least worst outcome for you, DH and the kids.

I didn't say it was an excuse, just that it was sad? 🤔

WTAF? Ww3 if you leave a fucking WhatsApp group?

Give dh the shitty baton if they’re going to be that bothered

Otherwise say that for a number of reasons you’re feeling overwhelmed generally and need to scale back social media and family admin to a more manageable level, if they want to contact your family, for them to text dh.

Thanks for all the replies, finding them useful. Think I might show DH this thread and see what he thinks about various options people have suggested.

MIL always says how important we are to her, how much she wants me to be part of the family etc. I’ve always tried to believe it despite the fact I’ve always had an inkling that she doesn’t like me. In pregnancy and after DC was born it became too apparent that her behaviour was at odds with what she says.

Myself and DH spoke to PILs when DC was a few months old to try and explain how we found her behaviour and what can we do to make the relationship better etc. The conversation was tough and ended with her shouting at me (while I held our DC) that I was accusing her of not prioritising her GC (I had curtly said I had to leave the conversation to put DC to bed. I was curt because we had attempted to bring the conversation to a close several times but she wouldn’t let us). After her outburst at me she broke down crying (didn’t apologise) and again said over and over how much she wants to make things work.

We saw them several more times and each time she would have an episode of leaving the room crying, because she was always hurt by something DH had said. She was grabby with DC and hesitant to hand DC over to me or DH if upset. Very possessive and it feels as though she only wants DC to focus on her and tries to take her to other rooms and away from my presence. This is excused as an over-excited GP who doesn’t see DC enough.

The incident over summer was when we were away with DHs family. I felt very watched and uncomfortable the whole time, aware that they were all wanting to have DC, who was 8mo at the time - clingy and in another country with unfamiliar sounds and faces. It all erupted when I was out of the room, but basically DH asked his Aunty to relax with DC and this caused MIL to leave the room crying. The rest of the stay MIL didn’t speak to me. When DH passed DC to her for a cuddle she would bring her straight back to me. When other family members were holding DC she would tell them (in another language) to return DC to me because I won’t like it?! Basically made me out to be a nutter. Family members that I used to have a nice relationship with were clearly cold towards me and have since stopped talking to me. MIL was with them for weeks before we arrived, so I think my name must have been mud by the time we arrived. DH had an explosive argument with all of his family. He was accused of breaking the family apart and questions like ‘who is feeding you these lies about us?’

In their conversations since MIL has argued that she has only held DC x number of times (not true, but she’s counting?!), that I’ve not made them feel important because she knows I’m good at gift-buying and yet haven’t always bought them gifts. That I’ve done things to hurt her, but she doesn’t want to go into specifics?!

So I don’t know if it all sounds petty or not, and maybe that isn’t grounds to minimise contact. I’ve probably completely outed myself if anyone reads this, but think I’m past caring. And I don’t think it’s necessarily grounds to stop contact between her and DC. That would break DHs heart, as he is not at a stage to consider reducing contact.

I guess I should have put this all at the start, and I guess it is relevant in seeing what my options are with this WhatsApp group and further communications. I am planning on seeing GP about anxiety as this has become such a trigger. It didn’t used to affect my daily life, but I’d say it is now as this is so consuming.

Oh god, I'm exhausted just reading that lot. Who needs death by a thousand cuts? Not you.

Opt out of the WhatsApp group. Nothing good comes of you being on it.

If you leaving means they all run around shrieking then so what? If you've done it right then you will be completely unaware of their tantrums. Make sure DH knows not to tell you anything at all about their silly nonsense.

He only needs to tell you anything if he is planning to take the DC to visit her and you need to know which weekend they'll be away so you can plan a nice time with your mates while he's away.

Bliss. Anxiety levels will plummet.

OP, she sounds nasty, bullying and manipulative.

She is not a good person to be around.

Anxiety can become hugely heightened when we don't listen to our gut and are forced to be in the company of those we know are not nice.

Get off the What'sapp group.

Tell your husband to add himself if he wishes.
Thank goodness they are 4.5 hours away.

Whilst you may want to facilitate a relationship with the GP's I don't think it is beneficial to children if their GP's speak badly of their parents while visiting.

Very confusing and not in the children's best interests.

What happened last summer was not nice. In fact it sounds like it was a deeply unpleasant experience for you.
Very bullying for you to feel the cold shoulder of your husband's family because of what she has been feeding the extended family with.

I certainly wouldn't be forgiving or forgetting and my children wouldn't be going near their house.

Go easy on yourself OP, it sounds like a very toxic environment.

Put yourself first.
Not at all good for your MH to be around such people.

💐

how about you move the WhatsApp icon off your phone home page do you don’t see the notification red dot. Then perhaps check it once a day, maybe when your husband is about - could he open the family WhatsApps so you don’t need to see them?

That or leave the group.
Or, get your husband to set up a new group with his family without you in and get him to use that one instead and the original group could fade away (and both of you could leave that original group).

Thank you. I always convince myself I’m being hard on her. I’m dreading Christmas because I know she’ll probably be extravagant and it all feeds into this horrible feeling of guilt and idea that she’s just a misunderstood sweet woman desperate to be a grandmother. We’re meant to be seeing them after Christmas for a day but I’m now thinking I could make my excuses and see a friend that day. Have always found this so helpful to get some clarity, so thank you all

OP, you need to focus on the clear reality of the situation, that your MIL is a dose and control those useless guilt feelings.

If I were you I wouldn't dream of going to visit them.

I would tell your husband to head off for a night or two and keep your children at home, away from her poisonous attitude.

Show them you mean business.

If he's dying to see them, let him off.

Whatever you decide, definitely do not go visit them and do not have them visit you.

I think if you make an early decision re this, combined with getting of What'sapp, your anxiety will improve no end.
💐

Your mil sounds like my mil.
My story will be long but it is very similar. Dh also supportive but stop short of cutting her out completely.
I get very high anxiety before and after seeing them, we don’t see them often but I don’t want my children going there without me and she passively aggressively behaves towards them and will bad mouth me and undermine me to them if I’m not there, so that isn’t an option.
I realised that the reason I feel like this is because I wouldn’t allow anyone else to treat me the way they do. I would just simply not associate myself with someone who was so awful to me, yet I have to with these people. I feel like one more major slip up and dh will cut her off completely, he hates her, but is guilted into things (very “stately home”) and it is only a matter of time before that happens. But it’s the odds of what I would like to do (cut her off) and what I have to do (polite, distant but pleasant) that causes me so much stress. The more control over a situation the easier it is, my favourite thing is going out for a meal, the time we are there is clear (time it takes to eat a meal) we are in public so she generally behaves better, and my children are occupied eating ect so I’m not having to have their behaviour and intelligence analysed by her (yes really, every opportunity to tell me which one is the cleverest, they are old enough to hear her) I find holding that bit of control of the situation manageable. Also, dh never leaves me on my own with her, that’s when she’s at her worst.

@billy1966 thank you so much for your words. I’ve just had a chat with DH and we’ve agreed that I’ll come off the whatsapp and make myself scarce when they come and visit DC. I think we’ll do a half day visit every 2-3 months. And he’ll be on high alert for any undermining comments or toxic behaviour around DC. We’re on complete agreement about it, which is the biggest relief.

@Shookethtothecore your situation does sound similar. I like how you put it, about the anxiety being due to feeling ‘forced’ to be in their company. I guess it is that. This huge cloud of obligation that feels like the heaviest weight

The wind of giving no fucks is a happy wind that blows away the cloud of obligation. Whenever you think of MIL and feel guilty, imagine a giant fart from a Monty Python style cartoon arse blowing away the cloud of obligation. Damn, giving all my best tricks away tonight

@Shookethtothecore

Exactly.

I don't suffer with anxiety, but blood hell if I had to deal with poisonous people like your MIL and have them forced into my company regularly I could imagine my stress going through the roof.

When people are like this I avoid, cut them out and deal with them.

But to have them in your family is just awful.

I'm glad you have spoken to your husband.

Be very firm with him. This is your precious MH. So fragile.

With someone so awful it is only a matter of time.

The thing is just because she is a grandmother does not give any rights.

Lovely if children have wonderful GP's in their lives, but they most certainly are not critical.

Make sure they do NOT stay at your house.

Your MIL knows that you are stressed, that gives her a kick and power.

Take her power away.

Tell your husband that the next visit is potentially her last contact with you and your children.
What he decides for himself is his own business.

But say it and mean it.

If she behaves badly when she comes, allow yourself to breathe deeply, stare at her and smile, knowing that you are done.

Being very firm with your husband re your boundaries is key here.

This is your life and you are choosing not to accept her behaviour as part of it.

She has chosen to behave like this, she will have to accept the consequences.

Like dealing with a child, if I say something my children have always known that I will stand firm.

They can absolutely depend on my boundaries being firm.

It has been very helpful, especially as they got older.

The knew not to mess with me because I will follow through.

You need to think about your boundaries, what is important to you.
What you want from your life.

Communicate this to your husband and stick to it.

Wishing you peace💐

Little update -

DH spoke to his mum the other night to explain that we won’t see them until after Christmas (didn’t say that I wouldn’t be there) and won’t be going on holiday with them. He could tell she was holding herself back from being too ‘persuasive’ to see us sooner. She did ask if we would see her on her birthday (in Jan) because his brother is away, so she’ll spend it alone (with her DP that is). Clearly manipulative and he said no. She also said they had been seeing a therapist and suggested that sometimes it’s other things that cause such a big emotional reaction to seemingly minor events, ie. we are overreacting. To this he said he’s also seeing a therapist (lie) and we have to accept that people have different experiences full stop. She also asked him several times if she’s offending me by posting on the WhatsApp group (presumably because I haven’t been responding). Specifically used the word ‘offending’. He said he didn’t understand her question or what she’s getting at but to drop it.

I think he did really well by the sounds of it, but unfortunately did suggest that he might go and visit them on his own one weekend prior to Christmas. I’m not keen on this idea but not sure why and it seems a bit controlling of me to not be keen?

Just wondering if anyone is still reading what thoughts are on this interaction. Does it scream of toxic behaviour or would seeing that be over-analysing and thinking negatively of people? @billy1966 I have read your replies several times over the last few days when I’ve needed a kick of reality!

I’m LC with my mil. No WhatsApp thankfully but if she texts me I only respond to direct questions and if she asks about us visiting or about seeing the dc I just tell her she needs to speak to DH about it.
I’ve told DH if he wants to go down at xmas I’m not going and he’s ok with that. He doesn’t want to go but she holds all the family presents for the dc hostage unless we go and get them