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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be scared stuff about what will happen to the NHS if the Tories get in?

164 replies

BatleyTownswomensGuild · 24/11/2019 11:53

Just that really, things are bad enough as they are.... My Mum died in an under-resourced NHS hospital. I have a friend battling cancer at the moment, FIL is waiting for surgery, SALT support for DS (who is ASD) is almost non-existent already.

I can't believe after 10 years of austerity the Tories are going to get another chance. I'm at the point that I'm lying awake at night worrying about this? AIBU?

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 24/11/2019 17:04

There’s no private emergency care, no matter how good your health insurance or how much money you’ve got, you’ll still have the same wait on a trolley in A&E.

Confusedbeetle · 24/11/2019 17:06

Oh give me a break

oohnicevase · 24/11/2019 17:07

. As if I would lie about having a child with sn ffs .. I do and I have never had a problem getting what I need for him ( I am very pro active and organised ) . As I said he had an op Friday and the care was outstanding . Yes his op got cancelled once a month ago but it wasn't a major problem and I appreciate there are emergencies or whatever . The consultant came to find me that evening even though he didn't perform the op and a nurse helped me back to the car because I was on my own with him and he was wobbly .. there was enough nurses and doctors and everyone was amazing .. I speak as I find it .

firstimemamma · 24/11/2019 17:09

Yep. Fiancé works for the NHS and regularly reports of the increasing challenges and strains the system is under. But people for some reason keep voting Tory. I despair.

tiggertogger · 24/11/2019 17:12

Every political party will protect the NHS at any cost. To think the tories would do anyway with it is ludicrous. What we really need to do is control the population and how we use it. Missed appointments, unnecessary treatment, health tourism, huge population increase are all contributing factors. A bit like climate change- we could all do our bit to help.

ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave · 24/11/2019 17:13

There is a lot of evidence of different experiences on here.

In 2001 there was a six week wait for cataract surgery, now it’s only available for one eye if you’re almost blind

PP posted this, but I had already posted that my 92 year old mum got hers done within 2 weeks. Just an example, but very indicative of badly run trusts, and well run trusts. Or perhaps demands of local populations. I don't know.

It is also not as simplistic as "we need more beds" - modern healthcare means we no longer need so many post-operative beds. A&E targets are meaningless, and counter-productive, if you are including someone with a bruised toe along with someone with a heart attack. They are both included in the statistics. We should be able to be more nuanced than that.

We need to be smarter. Hospitals should be critical care only, not re-hab. All these poorly old folk should not be in hospital, they should be looked after in the home, in their care homes, or in cottage hospitals. This of course means a huge investment in social care, but NOT in hospitals. When we say the "NHS" I think what most people want reformed is our Social Care.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 24/11/2019 17:17

The NHS will not survive a Labour government as the funding will dry up - which is taxation.

BJ has just announced 50,000 new nurses and no tax increases in the manifesto.

So where will the funding come from?

Alsohuman · 24/11/2019 17:20

All the cottage - or community - hospitals have gone. They’re part of the 15,000 beds that have been cut.

I love your post @ArthurtheCatsHumanSlave. I worked in NHS comms for decades and everything you say is NHS perfect world mantra which I trotted out incessantly without believing a word of it. The theory’s lovely but bears no relationship to reality

Notonthestairs · 24/11/2019 17:47

Staff shortages are critical - the number of vacant posts rising and the reliance on bank staff.

The Conservatives have been in charge for nine years - why haven't they worked towards fixing this before now?

People act as if they'd be an incoming winning party with a fresh start. They've had NINE YEARS.

firstimemamma · 24/11/2019 18:07

Even if any political party cared about the NHS (the tories definitely don't) what good will really come of that?

These politicians are just posh people in suits who have no clue about the complexities of the NHS and no relevant experience. Just a bloody fine art degree from Oxford! It blows my mind that these people are in charge.

If I had my way, senior doctors etc would be the ones making all the big decisions. People who actually understand what they're dealing with.

Politicians. I don't trust any of them.

WrongKindOfFace · 24/11/2019 18:15

+The Conservatives have been in charge for nine years - why haven't they worked towards fixing this before now?*

Maybe, despite the polls, they’re quietly bricking it about the election.

Either that or Boris has had a massive change of heart.

FixTheBone · 24/11/2019 18:30

My favourite myth, is that the NHS is inefficient.

If you look at £-for-£ outcomes it was amongst the best in the world (top 2 or 3), it's pretty hard to makenut more efficient, which, is why the funding cuts have caused services to deteriorate.

If you genuinely think it's poor value for money now, I dread to think what people will make of being charged £200 just to step foot into a doctor's office.

scaryteacher · 24/11/2019 18:56

Alsohuman My Mum has had two cataracts done this year; one in April and the other in September.

Pomley · 24/11/2019 19:11

@FixTheBone so because other healthcare systems aren't achieving we should just not bother? Thankfully things are changing in the supply chain, but if you think NHS procurement is anywhere near efficient than that's....surprising.

threesecrets · 24/11/2019 19:27

Waiting lists are only going to get longer if doctors are only working 4 days a week.

@SkiingIsHeaven some GPS make work 3/4 days but those are often 7.30-7.30 It's stressful and exhausting.

Graphista · 24/11/2019 19:43

I think anyone who believes that the Conservatives are not planning to privatise the NHS is living in a dreamland totally agree

Underfunding isn’t the only issue but it’s the main issue. It needs money to function. And the money IS there - it was there to fund a crazy referendum, to prop up a minority govt, to give tax breaks to the already wealthy,

But yes there are also issues with mismanagement, procurement, patient expectations management & also education (even on these boards which are generally frequented by quite knowledgable/educated people you get too many who don’t understand how effective and helpful pharmacists, nurses and other non dr hcps can be for many conditions), corrupt practices, poor medical practice...

As someone who worked in geriatric care for several years the issues with lack of social care impacting on the nhs strike me as insane! We used to think bed blocking was bad back in the early 90’s it’s far worse now.

Health tourism isn’t as big an issue as tories and other right wingers claim, but it’s still an expense we should be looking to reduce.

Why does it have to be either the NHS, or the U.S. system? comes up on EVERY thread like this. No it doesn’t BUT left to the tories it will be. Because they have made concerted efforts to invest in and ingratiate themselves with USA healthcare companies from insurers to pharmacology and everything in between. If you think they’re seriously considering models from other countries you’re kidding yourself.

I’m old enough (just) to remember 70’s healthcare too and it was far better then. My parents who were definitely old enough say so too.

I also worked in the nhs in the 90’s before labour came in (mostly) and things were pretty bloody bad then and that was Tory govt, friends/ex colleagues I’m still in touch with are telling me it’s much worse now.

LakieLady your friends experience is very similar to mine.

And anyone who cares to can AS me and see I don’t have the nhs on a pedestal I’ve had many issues with treatment, going back several decades, but I don’t think a privatised USA style healthcare system would have resulted in better treatment based on their system is just as bad if not worse on the same issues, the only difference would have been I’d probably be bankrupt!

if you are worried get private insurance . I have and use it for the things the nhs isn't so good at “I’m alright jack” if ever I heard it!

Not everyone can afford private insurance, indeed those most likely to need healthcare are the ones least likely to be able to afford it as chronic ill health often means inability to work.

I’m disabled and seriously mentally ill. Even if I ever get the support to get well enough to work again I’ll never be earning the big bucks, but I need a lot of healthcare and will need more as I age as at least one of my conditions is progressive. Where exactly does your attitude leave me and the many others like me?

@Pomley the utter disgrace of how nurses and other non dr hcps are being treated right from training stage is a scandal! I happen to have been a graduate nurse but recruitment practice at the time I strongly feel focused correctly more on aptitude for the career rather than academic ability. Yes nurses need a level of intellect to do the job, but they also need compassion, soft skills and a “will do” attitude. One of my friends now mentors trainees, the others work with them and they’re increasingly frustrated at getting more and more trainees coming through who think certain tasks and skills are beneath them.

BJ has just announced 50,000 new nurses and no tax increases in the manifesto.

So where will the funding come from?

Apparently I’m reading elsewhere they’re not even all new nurses but “retaining” current nurses I think as in making them less likely to leave cos it’s all going to shit! Good luck with that if you don’t respect and support them properly!

Re gp appointments I’ve said before based on my own experience (which inc that of friends/family) and a number of stories I’ve read on here, if the economic model of how gp surgeries and specialists intersect was changed meaning gps weren’t so reluctant to refer to specialists I strongly believe that would free up many gp appointments because there are far too many patients who’ve seen gps repeatedly for the SAME undiagnosed condition sometimes (as in my case) for decades when a specialist referral would result in correct dx and treatment. It is a particular bugbear of mine especially when there are constant complaints by both patients and gps that there aren’t enough appointments available. But as I said earlier there is also definitely an argument for educating/informing patients better so they know they don’t always NEED a gp appointment.

I’ve seen many comments on here by non medical people being dismissive of myself or other mners who are/were hcps when we tell them that the medical issue they’re having could/might be able to be treated by self care or that they could consult a pharmacist or nurse or physio or whatever instead of a dr. There’s definitely an issue where certain people will only see a dr even for very minor ailments.

NoFun21 · 24/11/2019 19:46

YANBU . If we don’t get the Tories out we’ve all had it. All
Is lost.

PettyContractor · 24/11/2019 19:48

AIBU to be scared stuff about what will happen to the NHS if the Tories get in?

You know labour haven't been in power since 2010? What makes you think the next few years are going to be different from the last nine?

What you're saying is something that has been repeatedly said by people of a certain political leaning for decades, during which time Conservative governments have come and gone without anything much changing.

(I've lived where I am for 30 years, find it much easier to see a GP now than I did for the first 20, and my local hospital has been replaced in the last ten years and is infinitely better. But none of that is anything to do with what party is in power, as far as I can tell.)

Pomley · 24/11/2019 19:51

@Graphista it's so sad isn't it, so many people who would be amazing nurses can't get through the door, just because they didn't sit a levels. My friend has worked in elderly care for the past decade, she is extremely intelligent, and (not being biased) amazing at her job. She always aspired to be a nurse, but fell pregnant at 16 and left school to work. She would love to train now, but it's just not financially viable to take a year out to do college and then go to uni without a bursary, so she cant. I think it's another victim of the education = ability, which isn't the case at all.

BingoLittlesUncle · 24/11/2019 19:54

Yes. To touch the NHS in the way you fear would be electoral suicide for any party. They would be handed their arses on a plate at the following election and probably every one after that for a generation. The NHS is to UK politics what gun control is the the US - it's political dynamite.

Fandoozle1 · 24/11/2019 20:04

Just offering my own perspective here- I have NHS midwives, microbiologists, pharmacists and doctors within my family (I work in Pharmacy) and most of them agree that although the main political parties haven’t exactly helped the NHS cause, they feel that no political party will make the necessary changes to the NHS as they are too scared (owing to peoples’ expectations / entitlement of what the service should provide).

My own experience within pharmacy is that most people want everything they are “entitled” to, whether they need it or not.
I have patients that will re-order their paracetamol, (on prescription due to quantity), eczema creams etc despite not having used up the last lot and will happily admit they pass it to family and friends.
Others will complain that the Minor Ailments scheme only allows them non branded kids paracetamol and will huff and puff and shout abuse because we won’t “do them a favour” and supply Calpol brand.

Graphista · 24/11/2019 20:11

Pomley it's another issue with Tory governance, they would much prefer tertiary education were reserved for them and theirs and not operated on a true meritocracy which is what funding for poorer students does - makes it a meritocracy.

Private education doesn't necessarily produce more able students it amazes me how thick certain people in the public eye who somehow are oxbridge graduates manage to be! Plus private education can't remedy a lack of intellect.

My ex was privately educated though weirdly by virtue of funding from the public purse as he was one of the last to benefit from when forces families could have boarding school education paid for by mod- he's thick as they come! How the fuck he passed 5 GCSEs I really don't know! 12 years of an expensive education and all it taught him was to think he was better than others because of it!

I've met in real life people educated privately and graduates of the best unis and they're clueless outside their areas of study (and not always particularly clued up on that!)

Nurses traditionally came from working class backgrounds, as a result they often had hands on experience of caring for others because that was the norm for their families, we're now getting nurse trainees coming through who've never held a baby, never cared for anyone sick prior to training, one of example my mentor friend gave was of one who commented they'd never so much as held a friends hair back when drunk and puking (and was really struggling not to gag/vomit herself when patients were vomiting)

When I applied for nursing it was made very clear we'd have no chance of being accepted if we only had the academic requirements but no experience of care. I'd been a nanny for a few years, looked after many babies and children from I was a teen but I'd also helped care for family friends and grandparents. I remember attending the first interview and another candidate having no care experience but expecting her academic achievements to outweigh this lack, she didn't get in but I think would be accepted now, I think the right decision was made.

I too have several friends who are hcas who in my opinion would make excellent nurses but the financial and academic expectations rule them out.

Alsohuman · 24/11/2019 20:12

* Alsohuman My Mum has had two cataracts done this year; one in April and the other in September*

Just goes to show what a postcode lottery it is. Mine weren’t deemed bad enough for surgery, although I was no longer safe to drive. They’re only doing one eye here. I paid £5k to have mine done. Best money I’ve ever spent. I just feel sorry for people who can’t afford to pay.

Graphista · 24/11/2019 20:19

Fandoozle you'll always get entitled ignorant arses whatever the system, hopefully their impact is minimal but in many cases education would help a lot.

On the generic vs brand medication Martin Lewis writes a fair bit on this, though of course from a consumer perspective, and tries to educate people that it's foolish paying extra for what is essentially the same thing. I had a very interesting conversation on this topic several years ago with a friend of dds. Her mum was very much a brand addict and we were out with her once and she got a headache and insisted on buying branded painkillers, I discussed with her and she (and I suspect her mother) had NO idea that the active ingredients were exactly the same, I showed her some info and we compared packet ingredients etc and she was shocked! Then she bought the cheaper option and it worked fine and she was a convert.

I'm a bit of a fanatic of being anti brand loyalty and have always taught dd as a consumer to question, compare and not be fooled by advertising etc

Partly out of necessity as I've never been flush but also because even if I did have the money I object to paying more for anything than is really necessary, I'm not a skinflint but I won't be a mug either!

Fandoozle1 · 24/11/2019 20:28

I agree with you Graphista, education would help on these sorts of matters. I have to say the constant abuse and entitlement does upset me though, more than it should. I need to learn to brush it off.

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