Question time man top 5 percent.

[refraction]

Did anyone see the man on QT asking about tax?

Apparently he doesn't even think he is in the top 50 percent of earners.

All doctors earn more apparently and solicitors.

How out of touch with reality?

He didn't come across well and very out of touch.

I am well aware of the teacher pay scales.

There were countless complaints a few years ago about a recruitment advert for teaching which said that ‘great teachers could make £65000’. All but a couple of hundred of those were in leadership roles and only a few hundred were classroom teachers-I bet it’s even significantly lower now with the government cuts to budgets.

There may be a small handful of classroom teachers earning £60k, but it is a tiny sample. I’ve been teaching 20+ years, am the top of the upper pay scale at £40k. The inner London upper pay scale only goes up to £48k so your friends must all be on the leadership scale which isn’t your bog standard teacher.

I would imagine doctors and lawyers could say a similar thing.

I agree it sound like a lot of money but when you crunch the numbers and take out the high housing cost and commuting cost and bills there isn't that much spare cash left.

If you go on to salary calculator and crunch the numbers you will see what mean re the 60%. I can't be bothered to try and explain it.

Yes, what a great system - HMRC topping up low wages so companies don’t have to pay them properly and can keep all those lovely profits (and pay as little tax as possible).

Have you ever claimed tax credits? Do you know the absolute horror people experience when reliant on tax credits, especially with variable hours? Overpayments are rife, people end up owing HMRC thousands they don’t have.

And yet the HMRC has a tax gap of billions, money they are owed and just haven’t collected. I’m sure most of us would love to not bother paying our taxes, but that’s reserved for the wealthiest.

I agree it sound like a lot of money but when you crunch the numbers and take out the high housing cost and commuting cost and bills there isn't that much spare cash left.

So how are 95% of people coping on significantly less? The fact that you think your statement proves anything other than the fact the entire system is broken is beyond me.

If you go on to salary calculator and crunch the numbers you will see what mean re the 60%. I can't be bothered to try and explain it.

Just did that and after tax AND national insurance, a £100k salary apparently takes home £66.5k a year. So way off 60%, even with NI included.

Yes I caught some of it, he certainly came across as a bit deranged

Talking about doctors saying they were all massively high earners- he lost me at this point

I think my GP cousin would've loved to have had a big row with him!

I agree the system is completely broken but taxing PAYE middle England isn't going to solve the problem.

Most people earning £80k are not fat cat comoany bosses. They are PAYE employees who pay all the tax they need to.

Company bosses on £400k to £500 k is not more I would imagine all.sort or schemes.in place to reduce their tax bill and won't be hurt.

But middle England is an easy target

The window between £100k to £125k is where the effective where the 60% Tax bites

But only for that part of your salary. We have a progressive tax system

But the top 5% isn’t middle England @Blankscreen. The average salary is about £30k, that’s middle England.

@fedup21 I've worked in secondary schools & still have friends who teach. People earning the figures I quoted are on the UPS with a TRLA or 2

The window between £100k to £125k is where the effective where the 60% Tax bites

Ah I understand it now. You're paying tax on the lost personal allowance plus tax on the income, giving you a higher effective date until the personal allowance is all lost. It must then drop back down again above £125k? What a weird quirk of the system.

Regardless, I still struggle to feel sorry for anyone on that sort of income having to pay higher levels of tax.

So how are 95% of people coping on significantly less?

95% of people on PAYE not 95% of the population.

Who on earth thinks that £80k is a below average salary?

Well, on the thread on MPs salaries on here a few weeks ago some people seemed to think their £79k wasn’t much and wasn’t enough to support a family

Completely out of touch with reality

I’m a doctor and I earn about half of what that man does!

There's a bottleneck in the tax system in the low 100ks. It's not the only one, and often people facing decisions about whether earning more will actually benefit them are those at the poorest end, but it's definitely there and it does impact on some people's behaviour. As does any bottleneck. Daft of us to pretend otherwise.

He's wrong, the independent IFS analyst was on the radio today and he said anyone who earns 80k is in the top 5% of earners. They might not think they are because the jump up to be in the top 1%is huge but they do earn more than 95% of people in the UK.

I agree it sound like a lot of money but when you crunch the numbers and take out the high housing cost and commuting cost and bills there isn't that much spare cash left.

That statement is baffling to me. People on low salaries have to pay the same price for their monthly train ticket or whatever as people on high salaries. And they often have long commutes because they can't afford to live near work. And the food in supermarkets costs the same if you earn a million pounds or twenty thousand pounds.

I'm not arguing that 80k puts you in the bracket of the super wealthy, but anyone with an ounce of reason can see that your bills do not magically rise if you earn more money. Your outgoings will probably be higher but that's by choice. And it's a perfectly valid choice. Nothing wrong with it. If you earn a good salary its normal to want to live comfortably. But buying a bigger house or living in a more expensive area, or buying a more expensive car or sending your kids to be privately educated are entirely optional.

80k isn't much in London

He's the reason all our services are so underfunded. I think I hate him, actually hate him.

80k isn't much in London

This rubbish again

If £80k isn’t much in London, how do all the people who work there in minimum wage jobs manage? It’s £4.5k a month after deductions. Anyone who can’t manage on that has no concept of budgeting.

I doubt you can privately educate your children if you earn £80k. Assuming just one earner.

The point is it's not a king's ransom and why pick on the top 5% not the top 2%? Where the junp is really huge.

I cynically think that labour have worked out than most people on 80-125k are PAYE employees who can't rejig things to avoid paying like the people higher up the tree do/can/would.

Sell it as taxing the rich to win votes but you're not taking the rich as £80k doesn't make you rich.

I think what people are alluding to is that 80k in some areas of the UK, though emphatically not in the city where this man lives, buys you a lower standard of living than someone from a cheaper area might think and a lower one than some people on a lot less elsewhere. Particularly if you happen to have been born post early 80s. Which, though entirely ignoring people who are poor in expensive areas, is true.

But this weakens QT man's argument further because honestly, 80k in Greater Manchester goes a long, long way. There is considerable regional variation in the cost of living in the UK, to the extent that direct comparison can be pretty pointless. But he's on the right side of it! Earning considerably above the national median in a cheaper area is the good life. I can't even think what you'd need to earn for the sort of lifestyle that buys you if you lived in the south east.

So many people make statements that aren’t based on even a basic understanding of the facts.

Why his man went on television and made comments about income statistics without undertaking some basic research is beyond me.

I hope he has the self awareness to feel a little embarrassed.