Question time man top 5 percent.

[refraction]

Did anyone see the man on QT asking about tax?

Apparently he doesn't even think he is in the top 50 percent of earners.

All doctors earn more apparently and solicitors.

How out of touch with reality?

He didn't come across well and very out of touch.

I havent read the whole thread but this is the top 5% of PAYE earners. I know a few people in just my circles of friends who earn a crap load more than £80k but are self employed so as far as PAYE goes they pay the lower rate of tax. These figures are skewed in comparison to real life. As PAYE you obviously arent taking home your £80k. I am not on any side here but i think there is always a danger with average figures and statistics.

I HATE this constant attack on top earners it's ridiculous - if you work hard and up the pay scale you get absolutely hammered for tax - where's the incentive to WORK HARD?

If anyone ever doubts that people hold the opinion that if you are not earning lots you can't be working hard, here it is. Working hard does not mean earning more.

Pay is rarely a reflection of how hard or not one works.

The incentive is the fact that earning more always means you have higher take home pay

Exactly.

And again, there’s no correlation between earning a lot of money and “working hard”. I would imagine that people grafting in care homes for £9 an hour work much harder than this dickhead wanging around with computers.

I wasn’t referring to this thread - just meant to general social media reaction. He is now splashed all over the internet for being a bit thick.

I know he is, and he did make a bit of a tit of himself and he did choose to speak on tv, but years ago a few people would have rolled their eyes and moved on. Now it’s all over the internet with people researching him. He has taken down his Facebook page.

I have recently read a book about how people are shamed in the internet, was fascinating . As usual women get a much rawer deal. I was probably just Sensitive to it in that context.

Starting to feel sorry for him now. He made some very stupid comments on tv. He is clearly not especially bright, and made an absolute fool of himself.

Are you talking about ‘can’t do basic maths’ man or Boris here ?!

I wouldn’t worry about him too much @Dollymixture22 there will probably be another out of touch dickhead on QT this week we’ll all move on to discussing!

Ha ha yes, probably overthinking it.

He may well be enjoying his moment in the spotlight😊

find it strange to think that sharing a video of someone's own words counts as 'shaming'. He wanted his views to be heard, he was quite overbearing in his delivery. He's got what he wants, the whole country have heard him now.

I think if you go as an audience member on a heavily publicised debate like this and ask a very angry question, you will get publicity. If you lie and make stuff up, even more so!

DH is a manager. On the occasions that he and his team are needed to work on a Sunday, he brings home less than his team although he is responsible for them. No one on DHs grade want to do the Sundays because it really isn’t worth it for them. If he was taxed at the same percentage as his team he would still pay more tax than them, surely that’s a fairer system.

Mini, I am a self employed sole trader and pay loads of tax - upper tax rate is the same for sole traders and PAYE workers so the below is not quite correct

"I havent read the whole thread but this is the top 5% of PAYE earners. I know a few people in just my circles of friends who earn a crap load more than £80k but are self employed so as far as PAYE goes they pay the lower rate of tax. These figures are skewed in comparison to real life. As PAYE you obviously arent taking home your £80k. I am not on any side here but i think there is always a danger with average figures and statistics."

Mini, I am a self employed sole trader and pay loads of tax - upper tax rate is the same for sole traders and PAYE workers so the below is not quite correct

For sole traders, that's true. There are lots of people who have their own 'companies' of 1 person who may have worked out their tax effectively and pay corporation tax instead and don't end up paying the higher PAYE tax. They can also play around with the National Insurance system.

I suspect they have trusts etc that their accountant has set up for them. His sahm wife takes half his tax liability too. They still get child benefit for all 3 kids. Last year they had so much ‘spare money’ they bought 2 more houses. I dont think it’s illegal - just a loophole that should be closed. Also not saying all self employed people do this - but they do! Sure they aren’t alone.

Sorry -but they (as in the people i know) do

The lowest earners pay more on indirect taxes (more = higher percentage of their total income). One of the reasons higher earners enter the higher tax backets for income tax.

Yes this means higher earner pay in actual pounds more in tax. But that's to do with the fact their income is more in actual pound.

'Rich' it seems is never what a person is. It is generally is either a person who earns more than the defined. Or a person who has more than the definer. (That's more of anything, depends what the definer thinks they personally don't have enough of because of money - be that house size or holidays or anything else.)

And yes maybe self employed is the wrong term- business owners? I dont know

I HATE this constant attack on top earners it's ridiculous - if you work hard and up the pay scale you get absolutely hammered for tax - where's the incentive to WORK HARD?

Err, the incentive is that you earn more money. Due to the tax band system, if you earn more you still take home more than you would if you earned less. That’s true whatever the rate of tax provided a banding system remains.

Salaries (and bonuses especially) are set based on what the take home will be, not pre-tax figures. Pre-tax figures are meaningless. If tax rates were lower, companies would pay people less. If tax rates were slashed tomorrow, companies would use the increase in take home pay to justify wage freezes.

Market rate for specific jobs would fall as a new status quo is established. Market rates for roles is likely to increase if there’s a tax increase as people look to increase their wage to make up the shortfall - essentially it will be companies with large numbers of higher rate tax payers who fund these changes.

In my wide experience of such matters, I've often thought that it is better to earn lots of money, and pay some tax on it, than not.

he brings home less than his team although he is responsible for them

How is this possible if he is paid more than them to start with? That isn't how the UK tax system works.

The only way this could possibly be correct would be if his employer were paying the team members more than him in the first place (due to overtime rates perhaps). That isn't the fault of the tax system.

It is easily possible for a manager to be paid less than the people they are managing. Different roles.

Although generally I would say it's hard to manage someone if you are not capable of actually doing the role, not capable of stepping in and getting hands dirty if the need arises.

*he brings home less than his team although he is responsible for them

How is this possible if he is paid more than them to start with? That isn't how the UK tax system works.*

Because he has to pay 40% tax (plus NI) while his team pay 20% tax (plus NI) on their overtime rate.

Obviously he earns more than them usually but I am talking about what the extra money made by working on Sunday means as a stand-alone amount.

Because he has to pay 40% tax (plus NI) while his team pay 20% tax (plus NI) on their overtime rate.

So you’re saying that he’s a basic rate taxpayer but any overtime takes him over the threshold and he has to pay 40% tax on those hours, whereas they earn less so their overtime is still taxed at 20%?

On what planet do you think that means their take home is more? Just because some staff take home more for some specific hours but overall earn less?

That’s such a bizarrely skewed perspective

Salaries (and bonuses especially) are set based on what the take home will be, not pre-tax figures.

No, they're generally not, except in very specific industries, such as nannys/au pairs.

He pays 20% on most of his salary, the 40% rate is only on wages above a certain amount, about 40k?

Otherwise, he could take a demotion, get more money and less stress!