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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

offensive and outdated or just a belief

182 replies

PupsAndKittens · 17/11/2019 01:45

The bible... believe in it or not, everyone knows it.

My question to all you lovely people, should it be censored ( particularly the homophobic section).

Personally I am really torn on this as I am both Bi and Christian.

For
Society has moved on and has realised that people are born LGBTQ plus and no one has control over it
It is also extremely sexist which also makes me uncomfortable

Against
I will always be an activist for freedom of speech and I believe that every human being should be able to believe what they want, no matter how un PC ( providing that they never physically hurt anyone)
Aren’t we then discriminating against Christians? For saying that their beliefs are wrong and should be made illegal?

So what do you think. is it time that this book is changed to meet current moral standards or are we all snowflakes and should just except beliefs of Christianity, that people have a right to believe if they want to.

OP posts:
woodhill · 17/11/2019 13:40

Inspired by GodSmile

many of the authors of the NT died for their faith, not something trivial.

I agree there are difficult texts in there

StealthMama · 17/11/2019 13:40

Even though I know that God loves everyone no matter what

But that's not true is it... gods love is conditional, it's based on living by the rule of the bible, or begging forgiveness and paying
penance if you don't.

Yes it's outdated, but unless there's a second coming, who are we to change gods word...we must simply have faith in his plan for us.....

Apparently.

silencebeforethebleeps · 17/11/2019 13:47

You can't censor the bible, it is a historical document that contains a lot of timeless stuff that is still relevant today and also a lot of stuff that is a product of its time and should be read (or ignored) as such. I do however believe that we can still add to the corpus of holy scripture that has been handed on to us - why would our experience of God be less valid than that of people millennia ago? And I would particularly welcome the voice of any marginalised community. It was the marginalised who wrote the 'official' bible in the first place.

MintyMabel · 17/11/2019 13:50

however I feel that society ( particularly in the western world) had more hate for Christianity then Islam

Sure. Not much hate out there for Islam, here in the western world. 🙄

HeadsShouldersSneezeandColds · 17/11/2019 13:50

The Old Testament is also contained in the Torah and is religious law. You can't just change it.

HeadsShouldersSneezeandColds · 17/11/2019 13:53

It's just an out-dated story tbh. I don't see why it gets such publicity
To you. Others put great faith in the bible, Koran and other religious texts. It would be deeply offensive to them to change what they believe is the word of God and the very basis of their faith and comfort in life. (I don't share those beliefs, BTW).

kateandme · 17/11/2019 14:37

they write of romans killing people in arena.
they write of woman with strong minds being woman and burnt at the stake.
kings were allowed to bhead wives because they wanted a son!
they write of killing all sorts of people for beliefs.
they write of beliefs in history we now would never ever subscribe to
people who were gay were once tortured into changing
people with mental health and illness were put in hospital were they were abused raped and horrifically treated.
we now dont belive in them.
but also in the bible it write of forgiveness and in the end it was a place in time where all others in society thought the same.we have all moved on.if it was wrote now i think it would be diferent.
and i think god/jesus etc would be the very people pushing inclusiveness and loving all. he did mary who was a "whore" to most
if he was here now which people beleive he is still here e would accept and love and cheer anyone on

kateandme · 17/11/2019 14:40

ive seen many churches and vicars etc come forward and say they would love anyone and think everyone now has the right to be and love all.that they beleive jesus on the mount and in his teachings would be about bringing people together.
jesus/god etc didnt write the bible.the people of the times did.
i dont believe jesus or god or prohets now would stand up and say half the shit hateful people of today say.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 17/11/2019 14:48

And I feel that too many bigots justify the homophobia with saying it’s not what I say it’s what God says,

And you think that by altering the Bible you will get these people to change their beliefs? Surely they'll maintain their beliefs as the "true word of God" and reject the new Bible on the basis that it's man's word and not God's?

All decent people, of any and all denominations, know that religious texts aren't instruction manuals to be taken literally and so adjust their views accordingly. That's the best way to approach this isn't it?

mothertruck3r · 17/11/2019 15:07

The idea that books should be rewritten or memory-holed because they might have ideas or opinions that are outdated is really sinister and Orwellian. Just read them as works of fiction if you find them troubling, but what offends one person might not offend another and vice versa. Why should one person's right not to be offended trump someone else's? Everyone should be allowed to read what they like in the privacy of their own home as they aren't threatening to hurt anyone (the reader, not the book).

The Nazis burned books deemed "degenerate". The morality police who want to burn and censor books because they don't conform with what the current identity politics dictate is the "correct" opinion are no different. Live and let live.

mothertruck3r · 17/11/2019 15:14

And OP. Why focus on the Bible? Do you want to ban the Torah and Koran too or is it only Christianity you find troubling?

GrumpyHoonMain · 17/11/2019 15:15

Christianity / Islam etc believes the act of homosexual sex is outside of the religion, not homosexual people (who can be forgiven). That is a really key differentiation and so treating all gay people with love, dignity and respect is a key part of both religions.

The question for how Christian or Muslim people who are gay should view themselves is another thing and deeply personal. For example based on the literal descriptions of homosexuality - the religious bans for both religions only really impact men / women practising anal sex. If a person doesn’t practise it then they have done nothing wrong.

JacquesHammer · 17/11/2019 15:26

And OP. Why focus on the Bible? Do you want to ban the Torah and Koran too or is it only Christianity you find troubling?

I mean why not read the OP without responding Confused

tillytrotter1 · 17/11/2019 15:30

Do you intend to rewrite everything that doesn't meet some people's views of today's society? Romeo and Juliet, underage, there would be no end.

sirfredfredgeorge · 17/11/2019 16:07

There's no single bible, so like many times in the past an updated bible should be produced that is not offensive, the only reason churches would not do this that I can see is if they want to cause offense.

So of course others shouldn't change any bibles, but you should avoid any religion that doesn't choose to change theirs.

flirtygirl · 17/11/2019 16:23

I came on to say what GrumpyHoonMain has said.

They are spot on.

reventlov · 17/11/2019 17:50

censored by who? the government? publishers? bookshops?

bible-thumping homophobic idiots will still be bible-thumping homophobic idiots

Howtosupportmyfriend · 17/11/2019 17:52

So, I went to church this morning and the sermon could be summed up as this:

  • Jesus spoke and treated all people with love, respect and kindness and as Christians we need to follow Jesus’ example.
  • If someone offends or hurts us, we have no right to behave badly towards them. We need to remember that Jesus loves them too and as we have been forgiven for the wrong we do, so we should forgive them.
  • Our words and actions have the power to hurt or heal: which should we choose?
  • that no single human is if any more or any less worth than any other.

There is SO much of the Bible that is great, relevant advice. People always tend to focus on the parts that are controversial.

For those mocking the Bible and saying it’s nonsensical and a fairy tale; I find that offensive. It’s belittling my beliefs. My faith is a huge part of my life. I would never mock an atheist or someone of a different religion. I really don’t understand why Christians are fair game.

NameChange84 · 17/11/2019 18:05

*For those mocking the Bible and saying it’s nonsensical and a fairy tale; I find that offensive. It’s belittling my beliefs. My faith is a huge part of my life. I would never mock an atheist or someone of a different religion. I really don’t understand why Christians are fair game."

Well said, I completely agree. People don't have to believe, but mocking people's faith is being deliberately cruel and disrespectful. There is absolutely no need for some of the comments that regularly crop up on MN towards people of faith, Christian's in particular.

Pardonwhat · 17/11/2019 18:08

NameChange84

I question all religions equally.
Why are people ok to stand in town handing out leaflets on why I should believe but people can’t voice why people shouldn’t believe?
I’ll defend anyone’s right to believe what they want to vehemently but I believe the right to believe and share goes both ways.
Maybe people believing offends me?

Paintedmaypole · 17/11/2019 18:15

Some people read the Bible very literally. It is a series of historical writings from ancient times which contain some wisdom and some things very much of their time. It has had a lot of cultural influence and editing it (by who?) would be like editing Shakespeare. The Old Testament contains instructions for a way of living for the Israelites of that time. The New Testament says that there is a New Covenant based on a spiritual encounter with God which superceeds the law. The church has sometimes focussed on keeping the status quo by focussing on particular bible verses. There tends not to be an emphasis on selling all you have and giving it to those who need it, being easier for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle than to enter heaven, the beatitudes etc but the focus is placed elsewhere. Jesus says very little about sexual morality. In that society heterosexual sex inevitably resulted in the birth of children who needed to be cared for so that dictated moral behaviour. I don't think there is a record that Jesus said anything about homosexuality. I don't think the bible should be censored, it just needs to be read with an understanding of the historical context, otherwise you are loosing something and dumbing down. stealthmama I understand Christianity very differently from you. God's love is unconditional (prodigal son, lost sheep etc.) and anyone who thinks it is a virtue contest that they can win is mistaken.

JacquesHammer · 17/11/2019 18:18

For those mocking the Bible and saying it’s nonsensical and a fairy tale; I find that offensive. It’s belittling my beliefs. My faith is a huge part of my life. I would never mock an atheist or someone of a different religion. I really don’t understand why Christians are fair game

I believe all religious texts are works of fiction.

AbsinthedelaBonchance · 17/11/2019 18:35

There are a lot of scholarly texts examining the Bible who wrote it and when. Whether or not it was divinely inspired there is next to nothing in it about homosexuality - and a massive amount about being good to the poor - For Christians there are only two verses in the New Testament - none in the Gospels -and those two when studied are better interpreted as referring to other sins than homosexuality. The big problem is that American fundamentalists for some utterly ridiculous reason are fixated on the King James bible as being the One,True version...medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619

housemdwaswrong · 17/11/2019 18:38

The divide between the old testament and new testament is often overlooked, and misunderstood theologically, hence people saying that Christians cherry pick which rules to follow and which to not.

This is a link that explains it fast better than i could anyone is interested.

www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_OldTestamentLaw.htm

Most of what Christian's follow now is based on the new testament, which instead of mosaic law is concerned more with grace and love and how you treat others.

Moonmelodies · 17/11/2019 19:01

The god of the Bible didn't treat people (or animals) very nicely, did he?
Hopefully everyone is happy to respect my belief that he is evil and the enemy of humanity.