To wonder if this Civil Service starting salary is negotiable?

[bagdaddeo]

I have seen a Civil Service job I'd like to apply for. I'm very well qualified for it and have lots of relevant experience so have a good chance of getting it. My current salary (in a similar role at a university) is in the middle of the scale for the Civil Service job so, if offered the role, I would like to think they could at least match my current salary. However, the advert says that new entrants to the Civil Service will be expected to start at the bottom of the scale (around £4.5k lower than my current salary). Does anyone know whether this rule is negotiable?

For context, I would also be getting significantly less Annual Leave and working slightly more hours (37 rather than 35). I haven't yet managed to get my head round whether the Civil Service pension scheme is significantly better than the USS scheme I'm currently on.

Without knowing the details of your current conditions or the CS role, so obviously can't be certain, I'd say that the starting salary almost certainly won't be negotiable and the pension will almost certainly be better than your current one.

What grade is the post?

In my department they'd be unlikely to negotiate for anything G7 or below. However, there is currently a push for getting the best candidate so it's possible.

I don't know - although my experience of public sector would make me think probably not. Have they listed a person to contact to talk about the role? that would be the place to raise the question of whether they could theoretically match your salary based on your previous experiende.

Yes I suspect it is. Bear in mind once you're there there are NO salary increases unless you get a new job. Where you are on the band is where you stay.

In my experience it's not negotiable

I worked at what sounds like a similar place for a while and my husband worked at a uni at the same time. I don't know much about the ins and outs of the pension, but the pay would NOT have been negotiable in mine, everything would have absolutely been 'this is how it's done, take it or leave it'. Even if I had reached the amount of service to increase my annual leave I never would have had as much as my husband's. I'd love to work at the uni actually--it would have to be a major step up to leave that kind of job in my opinion.

I have negotiated civil service salaries before. I recommend doing the £10 online make your ask course (just pop that into google to find it) before the actual negotiation.

Is day not negotiable, they've kinda made it clear where you start, it's not their concern that you are taking a pay drop of less holidays, as a player says the pension is probably better though

When I started in the 90s they did match my current salary (which was only a couple of thousand above the starting salary), but that was for a specialist post. Not sure how much leeway there is for generalist posts (and obviously this was many moons ago).

Thanks all. The reason it's difficult to compare the pension schemes is because there seems to be several flavours of the Civil Service scheme and no information in the advert about which flavour I'd be enrolled in. Does anyone know what the default is for new entrants? It's a Grade 7 role.

I realise I can probably get this info by using the contacts in the ad, but I'm just trying to get a feel for which way the wind is likely to blow (plus it's the weekend so I'm unlikely to get any definitive answers for a few days).

USS pension will be significantly better than the newest CS one- alpha, or partnership. And there are further changes in discussion too, so will get worse in future. As pp said if a specialist type post you could negotiate and the fact it’s an external advert suggests you may have scope to do so. You could try and see, but worth thinking very carefully about why you want to make this move- grass is not always greener!

It’s possible. I would say you would have to be offered it first and go from there. The hiring manager would then have to fill in a form to persuade HR and payroll why you were worth the extra money- experience, other professional qualifications, If the post has been vacant despite a number or recruitment rounds etc. I have done it twice and both times needed to show my current payslips (!) so don’t try and bluff. Once got them to match a salary on moving department and once got pay rise. I once got the money upped for an external candidate I wanted to hire to match their existing salary elsewhere. Sadly they decided to stay put for personal reasons.

It would all depend I imagine on your existing experience. My current role (specifically with my current employer) is something the civil service needs at the moment and so people have been offered higher grades / salaries than they applied for to ensure they say yes.

The other thing I would say is:

I'm very well qualified for it and have lots of relevant experience so have a good chance of getting it.

Not to sound negative but although this is obviously the way it should work everywhere, it isn't necessarily, and especially not in the Civil Service. First of all, doing a CS job application is a bit of a different animal to anything else - you should read as much as you can on Success Profiles, and how to write high-scoring competencies if 'behaviours' is part of the application. Especially when you're looking to come in as a grade 7, which is relatively senior, and you're likely to be competing with people who know the 'game' very well. The other thing is that often the best way of getting a given role in the Civil Service is to be the internal candidate - it's obviously not unheard of to be beaten by externals, but they naturally have a head start and often have a hiring manager on their side. I don't say that to put you off but to recommend that you do as much reading as you possibly can on the process and give yourself the best possible shot at it, because experience alone often doesn't cut it in the strange CS world.

Alpha I thibj for your pension

It’s unlikely. The reason I say this is that the fact the job is advertised as band is a bit misleading because, in my area at least, there are no progression payments anymore. Everyone just stays on the bottom of the band. The reason they advertise it as a band is that anybody who was that grade when progression payments did exist are now on a higher salary so in theory there are people in the department doing the job for that amount. Sorry, I’ve probably not explained that very well.

Of course, the CS is a massive place and maybe some areas work differently. But I’d be surprised. Also, as someone said above, Success Profiles means that they’ll be looking just as much if not more at your strengths and behaviours than your relevant experience. So you may have fewer bargaining chips than you think.

They don’t negotiate , I joined as part of a recent recruitment and everyone started at the bottom of the pay grade. The pension scheme is fantastic though along with flexible working etc and there are many opportunities to progress career. I actually got my bosses job two months after I started

At the risk of drawing ire, you should negotiate anyway if it comes to it. They can only say no. I am often surprised by how my female friends and colleagues won’t have a go. I think that is a different thread!!!

They’ll also state the band and salary at the start of the interview according to their process and ask if you want to continue - means you can’t then negotiate on offer

USS pension is better than the Civil Service Alpha pension for most people.

In my Department a G7 could negotiate a higher starting place within the band - but we'd look for very exceptional circumstances - usually very significant relevant experience or to fill a particular skills gap.

The pension will almost certainly be the alpha one, so read up on that. While not as generous as civil service pensions used to be, it's still very good compared to most.

Salary unlikely to be negotiable but worth a try. You'd need to be offered the role first and then go from there.

Do you want any form of flexible working e.g. WFH once a week, compressed hours etc? I'd say that's more likely to be approved than a higher starting salary.

It's possible to negotiate but they're a lot stricter nowadays. However, they are fairly likely to match your current salary.

I’m a civil servant and as far as know salary is non negotiable

I have known of people to negotiate a higher salary but only where it is a skill set that is really needed and in short supply. Digital skills for example. No harm in asking.

I think it depends on the department, directorate and the admin budget they have. I think it's possible and certainly worth negotiating; however you should possibly be prepared to walk away if they say no (entirely possible, pay has been essentially frozen for a number of years now, and some directorates are unlikely to have much wriggle room in what they can offer).

I think experience outside the civil service is often looked on favourably for new entrants, and I have known SCS starting on higher salaries than the band minimum (usually when they come in from the world of business, which is often revered!).
I don't think it's worth having the conversation before you apply for, and are offered the role. The recruiting line manager probably won't have much say in matters of pay anyway (HR or whoever manages the admin budget for the directorate are far more likely to handle this), so I reckon your best chance is to make a fantastic application, get an interview, be offered the job and impress the recruiting line manager before you enter into pay negotiations.

I do think it's worth a try (not least because you say your current salary does fall into the pay scale, which suggests the budget is in place for it - they could equally get an internal candidate applying who is already at that point in the scale after all). Just make yourself indispensable first!

And yes... Look at the success profile stuff. It is a weird art form.