To thing someone needs to do/say something?

[jamesforagirl]

A mum at school.... I think she needs an intervention of some sort but I don’t know if I’m overreacting and need to keep my nose out or not... Here are a few things...

Let’s call her Jane, divorced last year, very public and abusive about ex, yet he, Tim, comes to school none the wiser as not active on social media. Very nice man, though due to the information given by Jane, the school they don’t take any of his concerns seriously (his words), he seems the more sensible of the two.
Jane constantly shouts at her kids, I mean shouts really loudly, that the whole playground turn to look to see what’s going on. Complaints have been made about her doing this before as it’s very uncomfortable to see/hear. Generally a few f words thrown in for good measure.
Children are never in full uniform and buys them, for example, boots which are banned then complains publicly that other children have pointed out they are not allowed boots.
New boyfriend moved in 2 weeks ago, the children don’t like him as they say he shouts at them all the time, they’ve only been together 2 months. It’s all very intense, very soon. Initially Jane told the children they were moving 300 miles away to live with him, but 2 days later he moved in with them.
Children know a lot that they shouldn’t know about the divorce but entirely one sided view from Jane and they are only 4,6 & 8.
When 8 year old asked the best thing about an overnight trip, she said “being away from my family”.
Jane works hard and long hours, children are either with Janes Mum, their Dad or whoever volunteers via social media, although, no one tends to offer now as they will get dropped off at 7am and she expects them to be taken home at 10/11pm. I’m guessing the new boyfriend will now take over as he’s not working at the moment.
Jane has started letting the 6 & 8 year old walk 2.5 miles to school on their own, she will meet them at school but it’s not a particularly safe journey.
Social Services were involved at one point and her Mum was banned from collecting them or entering school premises, this has now been resolved and I don’t think SS are involved anymore.
I just have a gut feeling, that home is not “right”, they have everything money can buy materially, they are wealthy and have lots of nice, expensive “things” but I think they are lacking in everything else.
Help...

@Passthecherrycoke I don’t know who to say it too.... I’ve tried to talk to Jane directly but not much use in that really. I just don’t know.... lots of people are concerned but sure if anyone else is going to say/do anything.

She must be reeeeaaaally open and direct to have announced on Facebook "I've told all my kids a one sided inappropriately detailed story about my divorce"!

I suspect tbe authors of those posts are recognising themselves in Jane.

In this case, you suspect wrongly. I can’t think of one similarity with my own parenting. I just think the OP is going on hearsay and a few things that, while not ideal, really aren’t going to meet the threshold for neglect, like using babysitters or putting boots instead of shoes on your kids. It’s her selection of which facts to present that makes her judgement suspect to me, like she’s not really able to distinguish between what is reasonably the business of any responsible observer and what simply isn’t how she would do it.

So are you asking if you should phone social services about her?

I always find these threads really odd. Phoning SS and telling them what you’ve witnessed isn’t a big deal. It makes you neither a hero nor a villain. Sometimes I think this child neglect porn is getting quite popular on MN

Churchandstate. I beg to differ. I have worked in social care for years. Read the full post. The things witnessed absolutely do meet the threshold for further investigation. More importantly too many children remain in abusive families and have died because people don't speak out. I suspect the school have been in touch with SSD however no one should ever assume that someone else will speak out. As another person said, safeguarding is everyone's business.

What is 'Tim' doing about the way his DCs are being treated by his Ex?

tensmum1964

I did read the full post, and I believe some of those things are worth reporting, but some aren’t. Overall you may be right, but I have my doubts.

tensmum1964

And also, I didn’t say the threshold for investigation, and I said for action. What action, in your view, is going to be taken in the case of a parent who shouts and occasionally swears around their children, for example?

Churchandstate. Agreed SSD wouldnt be interested in boot choices etc but the abusive behaviour, statements made by one of the children, previous involvement etc are clear indicators and definitely do warrant further investigation.

A TAC maybe set up and a EHW appointed. Yes - a TAC is voluntary but some support is clearly needed.

Call nspcc/school/social services and express your concerns. Write down your points before the conversation and get some advice. Jane might be struggling and need advice. She won't thank you for getting involved... Her children might though. It's hard to see through closed doors, your call might be the dot that joins up the picture or there might be nothing serious to worry about. If you genuinely feel that those children are in danger then get some advice.

It's a phone call. If they don't think it meets threshold no action will be taken but notes made. It could be a small piece of a jigsaw.
I can't get my head around those who think we should ignore things that concern us when we are talking about safeguarding children. Just wow!

tensmum1964

Agreed, but that’s why I said the OP should report if concerned. But I question her judgment overall.

Definitely report it, even if it doesn't go anywhere this time, it will build a picture over time, it all gets logged, accumulative harm is very damaging.

Did Tim have an affair? Paint her as mental whilst consistently undermining her? Refuse to do pickups and drop offs on her days, will always be 'working, not my problem to get the kids to school' but leave her to work full time to pay the debts he'd taken out in her name? Say he'd buy the school shoes, then not do so or deliberately 'forget' to pack them when he returned them after contact, so she goes to get them ready in the morning to find out that there are no shoes or school jumper every single time?

Some of the most effective gaslighters come across as being very nice and calm/reasonable whilst they are literally destroying their victim through a thousand tiny, little things every month.

Churchandstate. We shouldn't worry are guess whether action will be taken or not. We should report what we see and let services do their job. It is always possible that little or no further action will be taken on further investigation. I suspect there will be some action in this case as there appears to be a picture of neglect/abuse building up.

Does Tim shove his hand up her backside and force her to shout and swear?

She may be stressed - had a crap time - but the children still need protecting and mum supported.

tensmum1964

I didn’t say the OP should ignore it.

I would contact NSPCC for advice.
If they think there is enough re SS, they will put in contact with them.

It would be unlikely to meet the threshold for SS but Early help might be able to get some professionals involved who would support the children.

Tbh, friend or not, I wouldn’t be able to hold my tongue with Jane @jamesforagirl - I’d sit her down alone and give it to her both barrels, she has no right to be turning her babies (they are SO young) into therapy statistics - tell her that her behaviour is abhorrent and if she doesn’t either seek therapy herself for her nasty abusive behaviour, then you’re going to step in and involve Tim and the school.

I'd be inclined to talk to a (head)teacher first. Express my concerns and not knowing if/when/how/who to report to. Then take their lead unless I still felt the children's needs weren't being met. But I'd give it some time before doing that.

I would either speak to the school or contact nspcc for advice. I’m not sure why you’re being given a hard time here.

I probably haven’t given that great examples I.e the boots, but I was trying to explain (badly) how Jane will do things she knows are against rules and then complain on social media about it and act surprised when she new what would happen. I appreciate you can only go on what I’ve said, but I’ve witnessed this for years and it wasn’t as bad as this when Jane was married. There is lots more I could add but the OP would be far too long and it’s long already. I’m coming from a good place. I’m not a nosey parent I’m genuinely worried for the children as well as Jane. The new boyfriend has just highlighted my worries as he shouldn’t really be shouting already and frightening children he’s only known and lived with for a short space of time. I suppose I would speak to the school first but do I really have cause or should I wait and see what happens over the next few months...

I’ve tried really hard to talk to her, I’ve been kind, sympathetic, got angry all sorts. I spend time with these children and I can see they are miserable but it’s her way or no way. I’ve told her time and time again to stop talking in front of them but she totally ignores and doesn’t think it’s a problem. So I question whether it is or not!