Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be outraged by Nativity casting as 'Innkeeper's wife'!!!

1000 replies

PIPERHELLO · 15/11/2019 09:26

Daughter (6) has been cast as 'someone's wife' in the Nativity play at school. 'Innkeeper's wife' to be precise.

Err...hello!?

This is fucking not OK! In 2019, to be identified as 'someone's wife'.

Normally I am pretty relaxed about all things school, and I certainly feel sorry for he teachers' workloads, but come on people!? This is 2019 - no woman should be identified by her relationship to a man!? SURELY!

Itching to call them out on this. Itching!

OP posts:
BlouseAndSkirt · 16/11/2019 08:12

Top Post, BertrandRussell

Happyspud · 16/11/2019 08:14

@BertrandRussell just closed the thread. Grin

Frankola · 16/11/2019 08:15

I'm somebody's wife. And I'm very proud of that. I'm also a senior manager of a team of 6 with my own money and life but I don't get shirty when I'm referred to as someones wife?

Oh and I'm a mother and a sister and a daughter and a friend too.

Isn't that what feminism should be? Being able to be what we want?!

Pick a better battle to fight Flowers

flowery · 16/11/2019 08:23

”Isn't that what feminism should be? Being able to be what we want?!”

Are you certain being purely defined as someone’s wife is what Mrs Innkeeper wanted? Or what the OP’s DD wanted?

Benjispruce · 16/11/2019 08:29

Why is it some people just seem to suck the life out of every joy in life? They all seem to congregate on MN. . OP it’s a 20 min play . Most of us have been in one as a child and not been damaged no matter what the grim reapers and their mates say on here.

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2019 08:33

“ Why is it some people just seem to suck the life out of every joy in life? ”

Do you really think changing the programme to say “Naomi, the Innkeeper’s wife” would “suck the joy” out of the play? Or, Reuben and Naomi, the Innkeepers”?

Clawdy · 16/11/2019 08:34

I said up thread that someone would repeat the Urban Myth about the inn-keeper saying "Come in" and it's there a few posts back! It was always going to happen!

Anotherlongdrive · 16/11/2019 08:37

Actually, Bertrand you have changed my mind. It should be changed

But if we are bringing it up to today standards we need to go the whole hog.

When jesus is born, one of the parents needs to declare they dont want their childs sex being assigned at birth. Maybe a debate about wether sex is observed or assigned. That they want to bring the baby up gender neutral. No mention of boy child jesus christ.

Remove any reference to Joseph as a father. Josephine, thanks. She is a trans woman who considers her relationship with Mary to be a lesbian one. Dont mention that only 2 people whose se is female can be lesibians. It could offend someone.

Or let's actually make Mary a transman. Erase any reference to him as the mother and refer to Josephine as the mother?

language is important and someone some where could be offended by any if these references.

Wink
flowery · 16/11/2019 08:37

Some people just feel so threatened by any change to the status quo don’t they? Oh the horror. A girl Innkeeper! Whatever next!

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2019 08:40

Fair enough, @ Anotherlongdrive.

I thought it was quite an interesting discussion. But hey ho!

Happyspud · 16/11/2019 08:52

@Anotherlongdrive, yes, you could argue that if you wanted to be deliberately obtuse. But then it starts to sound like you’re mocking a whole rake of marginalised individuals in the process. Though no doubt you think you’re smart and funny.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/11/2019 09:01

When jesus is born, one of the parents needs to declare they dont want their childs sex being assigned at birth. Maybe a debate about wether sex is observed or assigned.

There is #nodebate. The Nazis believed biological sex existed. I bet they had nativity plays too.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/11/2019 09:10

But then it starts to sound like you’re mocking a whole rake of marginalised individuals in the process.

I think you've missed the point of that post. I agree with the principle of OPs post for the reasons Bertrand outlined above, but to be 'outraged' as described is silly and reminiscent of TRA speak.

PP is taking the piss out of the magnitude of the response not hypothetical marginalised groups.

redcarbluecar · 16/11/2019 09:15

At least they’re trying to introduce another woman, other than the Blessed Virgin, into this oddly male-dominated story.

Anotherlongdrive · 16/11/2019 09:18

There is #nodebate. The Nazis believed biological sex existed. I bet they had nativity plays too.

Unfortunately, there absolutely are debates about this happening. As much I agree that sex is observed and can not be changed. Rheres definitely people debating this.

Not sure being backed up by nazis is glowing recommendation.

yes, you could argue that if you wanted to be deliberately obtuse. But then it starts to sound like you’re mocking a whole rake of marginalised individuals in the process. Though no doubt you think you’re smart and funny.

Yeah, there's a few people on this thread that think they are all so much smarter than everyone else.

Why, if language is so important, do we not include all the gender changes in last free years. Why is including them, mocking them. It may make trans parents or gender neutral children feel more included.

You said language was important, I am agreeing. If you insist everything needs to be dissected, and brought up to 2019 standards of what's acceptable language, we need to think about the references to gender in the story as a whole.

These arent my view on how the subject I'd gender and sex should be dealt with. But this is how things are in 2019.

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2019 09:22

“PP is taking the piss out of the magnitude of the response not hypothetical marginalised groups.“

Actually, @Anotherlongdrive was taking the piss out of my post. Absolutely fine to do so of course, but it would have been better if it had been funny.....

PhilCornwall1 · 16/11/2019 09:23

Blimey!! 866 posts on something that really is a non-issue. Outraged by a kids nativity play. Really??

Anotherlongdrive · 16/11/2019 09:31

Actually,@Anotherlongdrivewas taking the piss out of my post. Absolutely fine to do so of course, but it would have been better if it had been funny.....

Actually I was taking the piss out of people that are outraged at the title of innkeepers wife and think it should be updated, but only think the things that offend them should be updated. The people that wouldnt support having the whole nativity updated to 2019 woke language, just the bits that outrage them.

The level of outrage is ridiculous. Especially, since theres no care for who is offended by other aspects of the story. Or I'd someone is offended by adding a robot in. All that's fine, but let's outage at the title of innkeepers wife.

Also your posts wasnt really anything to write home about. You rewrote things that several people had already written. No need to target your post.

flopsytheflatcat · 16/11/2019 09:40

I don't say this often but get a fucking grip OP.

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2019 09:43

“ Actually I was taking the piss out of people that are outraged at the title of innkeepers wife and think it should be updated,”
So why did you address me directly and talk about my quite calm and measured post, then?

Bodyposiftw · 16/11/2019 09:45

BertrandRussell thank you for a very interesting post indeed. No sarcasme, I learned a lot. I see your point of view but I will repeat myself here, which won't go down well with Flowery.
Genuine question here, do you actually think that casting the child as Britney/Lizzie/Naomi will have more of an impact in fighting casual sexism? How am I completely wrong in thinking that on the contrary , keeping the " innkeeper's wife" and pointing out to children that this wouldn't be acceptable now is actually a perfectly valid way to bring up the topic of casual sexism? Although this question is more for Flowery who is the vocal one about this suggestion.
No one necessarily has the answer, but I am genuinely asking, which of the two ( name vs IK wife with the issue pointed out) is the most effective way to address casual sexism.
The OP has already agreed to have a word with DD which is great.
Flowery you seem convinced that teachers won't point out the issue. What makes you so sure about this? Surely at least some of them will!

Anotherlongdrive · 16/11/2019 09:54

So why did you address me directly and talk about my quite calm and measured post, then?

Because you changed my mind. I am onboard with 'language is important. It is. I just find it odd that posters like you only think it's important when it suits your agenda.

Apologies, I forgot you think you can dictate how people and what people post. After 10 years here, you would think I would remember that.

You knew full well I wasnt mocking marginalised groups. But, you said it in the hope to shut me down. It's a well known tactic of people that dont like people diagareeing with them. "Let's hint they are being bigots, that will shut them up"

If language is important, it's not just important to the issues you want it to be.

Redspider1 · 16/11/2019 09:57

Absolutely @Anotherlongdrive

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2019 09:59

“ You knew full well I wasnt mocking marginalised groups. But, you said it in the hope to shut me down”

I didn’t say it at all!

Bodyposiftw · 16/11/2019 10:01

Anotherlongdrive I agree with you. No one would be outraged at the wife having a name hopefully. Just like no one should be outraged about robots. Reasonable people won't be outraged about changes tou would think.But then someone comes along and claims to be outraged about things....NOT CHANGING. So you are right... how many non- changes can we get outraged about? The list is endless . Why are the names anglicised? ( a change in itself, but that is the names under which the characters are known here ) Why are the costumes not modernised? Why are there no gay couples? If these things were to be introduced it would be good, yes, but why be outraged that they are NOT introduced?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread