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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sacked with immediate effect?

107 replies

Sherloidbaisherloid · 12/11/2019 16:47

Does anyone have any experience of employment law/rights? Close friend went to work today to be told she was being dismissed with immediate effect as her performance wasn’t what it should be. Can an employer do this? I don’t know if there have been previous meetings or warnings. She says no but surely there must have been? She hasn’t been allowed to even work a notice period. She is really stressing out so I said I would post on here to see if anyone has any advice? Thank you

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 13/11/2019 19:48

what is the point contesting it @Ated? It's a court procedure, stressful and doesnt always end well. No guarantee of compensation. Best to move on and put it behind her.

VanGoghsDog · 13/11/2019 19:55

She should be paid her contractual or statutory notice so sort that out!

Ated · 13/11/2019 19:59

JinglingHellsBells :
It all depends on what the individual wants. At least with full information, you can make a qualified decision. It costs nothing to find out your position

SandyY2K · 13/11/2019 20:08

Does the company have procedures for managing poor performance?

Was it followed?
Was she informed of the performance issues and given support and opportunities to improve?

Even if you've been employed under 2 years, decent employers wouldn't just dismiss with immediate effect for performance issues.

Xenia · 13/11/2019 20:08

It is impossible to say withou the fact eg she might not be an employee. Or she may be employed under 2 years.

Also companies if they want to and find it simpler can just get rid of people right away (very common in sectors like financial services - you are even escorted out immediately so you cannot speak to colleagues) and deal with the fall out and payments after rather than endure the person in the office for the next month causing trouble or reminding them of it. Of course if you ignore giving warnings etc you are likely to breach the law but that can be a simpler route than going through proper procedures.

WiddlinDiddlin · 13/11/2019 20:08

@Aridane Get this off AIBU!

Excuse you, since when did you admin Mumsnet?

StealthPolarBear · 13/11/2019 20:08

"Glovesick

How close to 2 years? She could round up."
Round up what?

Lisabrogden84 · 13/11/2019 20:31

Ultra Low Emissions Zone. We went to London last weekend and stayed in a central london hotel unbeknown to us was in a ULEZ we didn't see any signs or have even heard of it before , Yesterday we received 2 penalty notices at £80 each. They say we have no right to appeal there is no number to ring and we simply have 2 weeks to pay it. At £160 i just don't have the money. Anyone else been through this

Ferret27 · 13/11/2019 20:52

Look up local free advice centres that have employment lawyers...
Don’t assume she has no protection.... It won’t her to speak to ACAS try more than one place for advice... If she has never been spoken to about her performance her rights should be clearly written out in her contract with her employer...

Ferret27 · 13/11/2019 21:14

She should also find out if they have a history of doing this it may help her a) get over it quicker or b) decide if she has grounds to challenge it

cabbageking · 13/11/2019 21:14

The rate doubles if not paid in 28 days so I suggest you follow the link to try to sort it. They will have a photo of each offence.

tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/penalties-and-enforcement/challenge-a-penalty-charge/make-a-representation

Liketoshop · 13/11/2019 23:03

Is she being entirely honest with you?

ChocolateNoodle · 13/11/2019 23:35

Sounds like they’ve sacked her under the heading “Capability”.
If there is a problem with a team member not reaching their targets / carrying out their duties fully to a good standard then the line manager must speak with the staff member and discuss it with them. They’d ask things like, do you have any problems at home? And, do you understand what is required in your job role?
Your work is of an unacceptable standard, how do you feel about this? What can I do to help you improve?
At some point a formal meeting would take place. This is the time to take a Union Rep with you. Do not attend on your own.
Unbelievable this has happened. Please tell her to obtain advice as others on here have said.

pam290358 · 14/11/2019 06:51

I used to work in this field and even contract/agency workers have rights, regardless of how long they have worked for the company. If your friend works as a direct employee and her performance is not up to standard, she should firstly be interviewed by line manager and given a verbal warning, together with a clear explanation of what is going wrong and what is expected of her. If there is no improvement, it then moves to a written warning. After that, failure to improve can result in dismissal, but the employee should be given notice as per whatever the contractual obligation is.

For agency workers, the Agency Worker Regulations introduced a few years ago, give contracted workers the same rights as permanent staff after a period of continuous employment - two years for most things, including pay and flexible working hours. However, the agency itself is responsible for its’ employees. If the contracted employer has issues with agency staff, they will report their concerns to the agency and then it’s normally an agency rep who will deal with them. As far as I am aware, the disciplinary procedures for performance/attendance issues for agency workers are broadly the same as for permanent staff, so regardless of length of service, they should be given the same verbal and written warnings before there is any move to dismiss, and they should work out their contractual notice. Instant dismissal is usually only for gross misconduct.

Having said all that, my partner spent some time in the employ of an agency, contracted out to a multi national corporation and at times it was a bit fraught. He says there were a few occasions on which fellow agency staff were summoned from their desks and escorted off the premises, never to return, so it depends on what they term as gross misconduct. It might be worth contacting ACAS regardless of whether she is an agency worker or not, as what’s happened, definitely doesn’t sound right if it’s entirely performance related.

flowery · 14/11/2019 07:01

The trouble with posting stuff like this on AIBU is you get some advice from people who do know what they are talking about and happen to have come across the thread, but it’s mixed in with sometimes dangerously inaccurate advice from people who haven’t got a clue, or think they know what they are talking about. Making it virtually impossible to know which advice is decent and which advice is complete codswallop...

Aridane · 14/11/2019 07:28

Yes - which was why I thought OP should get it off AIBU. 'Employment' tends to have posters who give less dangerous,y inaccurate advice! (but of course I am the forum police Grin)

flowery · 14/11/2019 07:35
Grin
flowery · 14/11/2019 07:35

👮🏻‍♀️

Aridane · 14/11/2019 08:38

Sacked with immediate effect?
IamtheDevilsAvocado · 14/11/2019 08:54

There's a reason there are specialist employment lawyers... It's a massively changing field

BlackCatSleeping · 14/11/2019 09:06

I just wanted to say to your friend not to take it personally. It’s probably just a financial reason. I hope she can’t find a better job soon. Flowers

RaquelWelch · 14/11/2019 09:30

littlehappyhippo You also have to be in a job for a certain amount of time in order to qualify for their maternity package. You can't just start with a firm and get pregnant within a few months and claim. You have to have been working for the firm for a certain amount of time in order to qualify

niugboo · 14/11/2019 11:23

@Glovesick you can’t round up. Good lord.

Moondancer73 · 14/11/2019 11:24

Unless she's been there two years she has no rights at all unfortunately

cms1972 · 14/11/2019 11:53

I am not an expert but this happened to me a few years ago. I was sacked just inside of 2 years. They refused to hear my appeal against dismissal. I was shocked to be told by my union there was nothing I could do as I had not been there for long enough. It is very horrible when it happens to you. I wrote a letter to find out why I had been fired & eventually got one back saying I was 'unsuitable for the role'. If so, why was it not raised with me earlier? There were no complaints about me as far as I am aware.
The difficulty is how to account for it when applying for future jobs. "I don't know why I was fired" - doesn't sound good. If your friend can get them to let her resign that would be better. I guess this is why we are all advised to have a couple of grand on one side for a rainy day!! (Which is easier said than done). I am sorry for your friend Flowers but she will get through it. Start with ACAS and citizens advice, but don't fight for too long - focus on moving on. They sound like gits anyway, your friend is better off working in a place that appreciates what she has to offer.
nb/ to the previous poster who said, you don't gain rights to a "fair" dismissal until two years in a job (thanks Tories) - my understanding is that it was Vince Cable who is responsible for this piece of legislation? - am I wrong? I know he has made it harder to bring an action for unfair dismissal.