Sacked with immediate effect?

[Sherloidbaisherloid]

Does anyone have any experience of employment law/rights? Close friend went to work today to be told she was being dismissed with immediate effect as her performance wasn’t what it should be. Can an employer do this? I don’t know if there have been previous meetings or warnings. She says no but surely there must have been? She hasn’t been allowed to even work a notice period. She is really stressing out so I said I would post on here to see if anyone has any advice? Thank you

Get this off AIBU!

If it's gross misconduct then you can be sacked without notice or previous warnings, but this is rarely for performance.

Under two years service you don't have many rights, unless you can prove discrimination on a protected characteristic I. E. Telling them she's pregnant then being sacked unexpectedly etc.

If it's not gross misconduct then she's entitled to notice and warnings, notice may be paid in lieu I. E. She doesn't actually need to work it, just paid for the period.

Acas are your best source of advice on the specifics. It doesn't cost anything and their website/call centres are very useful. Unions will just charge you (for less qualified advice usually).

Tell her to contact acas they can help

ACAS are very good and helped somebody I know get money that they were owed by going to a tribunal.

It is impossible to give much advice without more info as others have said, length of service, any previous warnings etc

Even when it isn’t gross misconduct it’s fine to dismiss someone with immediate effect, as long as they are paid in lieu of their notice period and any accrued holiday pay.

Over two years they’d need a fair reason and they’d need to follow a fair procedure, but under two years it’s really common.

I’ve done it twice in my work life. Both were for overt dishonesty. In each case I met with them with HR and removed ID, all IT equipment and then had them escorted from the building as I was concerned they would download information from our databases to use against us or send damaging emails from our systems.

One knew she’d been caught out and the other took us to tribunal and lost. One was reaching end of probation (the one who went to tribunal at their own expense) the other had been employed over two years but it was blatant dishonesty such that it as gross misconduct.
HR sorted out pay owing etc by email afterwards.

It seems unlikely that it would be immediate effect without prior warnings until it was a pretty serious offence.

@Sherloidbaisherloid

@Doyoumind is slightly off course. There are two types of dismissal
"unfair dismissal" which is as it sounds perhaps and is where the "2 year rule" comes in. The other is "wrongful dismissal" where there is no such limit. You will need advice as to whether by any chance it could be "wrongful" though that normally covers such things as "discrimination". You can research the difference on the internet

Thank you so much for all your helpful replies. I’ve told her to contact acas so she is looking into that this evening. She said it’s just shy of 2 years she has been there so she’s thinking are they getting her out the door while they can before it’s over 2 years? She says there was no prior warning or discussions, she’s in a right state as she has 2 little ones. I think she needs to speak to someone and get some definite advice

She might be in a probation period.

Sounds horrible, hope she gets good advice from acas.

Get this off AIBU!

Helpful advice @Aridane. Presumably the OP just made, you know, a mistake.

If it's true that an employer can sack you for NO REASON if you have been there less than 2 years, then how come I see women posting on here saying 'I am 3 months pregnant, WIBU to start a new job and not tell them, then take one year maternity leave in 5 months?' and people flock onto the thread saying YANBU, do it! And they can't sack you because it's discrimination?!'

So many different rules for so many different scenarios.

@Sherloidbaisherloid I hope your friend gets a favourable outcome.

This happened to someone I knew, no warning given, just told they didn't have the same vision as the company. They were paid in lieu of notice, and got another job very quickly. They didn't put anyone from the company down as a referee, and just said at interviews that the job wasn't the right fit for them. It knocked their confidence, but a year on they're much happier. It might well be a blessing in disguise for your friend.

If it's true that an employer can sack you for NO REASON if you have been there less than 2 years, then how come I see women posting on here saying 'I am 3 months pregnant, WIBU to start a new job and not tell them, then take one year maternity leave in 5 months?' and people flock onto the thread saying YANBU, do it! And they can't sack you because it's discrimination?!'

Explained upthread, you don't gain rights to a "fair" dismissal until two years in a job (thanks Tories) - but some things are illegal from day one - sacking you solely due to being pregnant is one as it's such obvious discrimination.

It's not that complex really.

Yes, it’s straightforward to dismiss without due process when an individual has under 2 years service (it used to be 1 year). Once that 2 years has passed, it’s an lengthy and onerous process to dismiss someone “fairly”, as you would then follow a capability/disciplinary process to address persistent performance issues. The Acas website is a good resource for employees.

Your friend should receive pay for her contractual notice period, plus any accrued leave. It doesn’t sound like she has recourse to pursue legal action. Hope she finds a new job quickly

You still need to prove a disciplinary process was followed to sack for gross misconduct. A company still needs to adhere to its own policies if they do this and if they don't they are leaving themselves open to legal action.

The only claim for not following their own policies if under the 2 year mark is a claim for breach of contract, and most policies expressly state that they are non-contractual. So it’s unlikely there is a claim.

You can also claim wrongful dismissal under 2 years in certain circumstances, namely victimisation and or sexual harassment.

This would be a claim for discrimination rather than wrongful dismissal. Wrongful dismissal is a claim for breach of contract, which most often occurs where a person isn’t given their notice period when they are entitled to it. It is also possible to dismiss someone immediately and not pay them their notice period, if it is justified (such as gross misconduct).

OP, I agree with some others that this would be better on the employment board.

Should still be paid her notice period and any leave she had O/S

*when I say claim for discrimination, I mean falling within the prohibited conduct aspects of the Equality Act 2010.

Mmmmm, DH had to let someone go yesterday. It was a he, who had numerous warnings about a shifty attitude and poor performance. Had no respect for his line manager and did fuck all when their backs were turned. Had been performing Poorly for 16 of his 20 months service, was told to leave with immediate effect and paid his notice period.

Didn’t go well, he was pointing his finger, shouting and disputing his shitty attitude to the end.

Maybe there’s more to this than your friend is saying.

—it’s not her husband in the midlands is it.

@Aridane

Get this off AIBU!

Phew, the forum police are here....

Afraid it can and does happen. Happened to me after I failed to lie to a client as instructed by company owner!! He said I had to tell them another member of staff was on holiday when actually he had been sacked...

Sorry OP horrible shock but very easy for employers to do with short service

They don't need to give a warning and can dismiss someone depending on what the problem is.
They don't need to allow you to work your notice depending on any risk.

I suggest there must be more to this if she had to leave immediately?
It doesn't make sense as they have to pay her notice period.