About homeless people?

[Catabogus]

Am I being unreasonable (or more likely, dim) not to understand why there are now so many more homeless people on the streets than there were 10 years ago?

I’m partly talking about London - I have started going semi-regularly in the early morning for work, and I am shocked to see very how many people there are now obviously sleeping on the streets. It’s far, far more than 10 years ago.

But I’m also talking about the much smaller city where I live. There are now people almost ‘camping’ in doorways: they’ve set up sleeping bags and boxes and cardboard and are obviously there night after night, in the cold and rain.

There have always been one or two well-known “tramps” in my city, and one younger man who was suspected of actually having a nice home to go to at night despite making money from begging in the day, but these are now young and old, men and women, far more than I’ve ever seen before, and they are clearly living year round, day and night, in all weathers, on the streets.

AIBU to be shocked? Are we going backwards as a society? Is it the benefits system that is failing and causing this? Or other things I’m missing? I feel really depressed about it.

The Labour Party activists on here

Im not a Labour party activist. I dont see labour doing anything to fix the problems and if they proceed with requistioning property policy i think they will only make the situation worse by reducing the pool of landlords.

Very Safe tory seat with MP who actually is a half decent human who is at least trying. If he doesnt get in it will be Brexit party (unless they dont produce a candidate)

My vote won't be making a difference whatever way.

@Clavinova makes a good point- street sleepers generally aren’t going to have recourse to public funds, even when they’re British.

I’m not a Tory (at all) but I think some of these later posts do show the, er, noble aim of some of their policies- they want citizens to be independent of the state.

There will be casualties of these policies, but in the long term they want to change society to benefit from independence.

UC credit is a good example of this, poorly executed because they tories are a shambles of a party on the ground.

Also take the bedroom tax, or arrears example- they’re saying if you need state assistance, it’s there for those who genuinely can’t look after themselves.
And if you have it, play by the rules. Pay your rent on time. Don’t over occupy. These aren’t harmful ideas.

But What happens is one or two generations have to take the hit of this imposed culture change, and who wants to be that generation?
Innocent people like sharpandshiney’s mum get caught in the chaos but the pace of change is so fast no one can stop to think about the ones like her harmed forever.

And then of course, 10,15 years later everyone is fed up of it,labour get back into power and Undo the whole culture shift of independence by throwing money at public services (not always a good thing either) and creating a generation or two of dependence on the state.
Then the tories get back in and try again to force their ideology on the battered public... and again and again. It’s just a cycle. A cycle of shit.

OpheIiaBaIIs
Don't know about those but I remember seeing that photo in the papers.

Yes it just so unjust that we let people in our own country sleep rough!!
In our wet and cold climate, but will still manage to send nearly 14 billion to other countries. I personally think that we should stop sending any foreign add until we have sorted our own housing crisis here in the UK.

The poverty in the UK is getting worse every year and the number of children being bought up in bedsits or in temporary housing with very low family income is also a National disgrace.

Just think how many lost cost rent homes we could build in ten years if we spent the foreign add budget for the next decade on housing for the poor in this country.

140 billion would build a lot of homes.

I expect I will be now shot down in flames!!

Let's not forget, either, the increase in deaths of rough sleepers. Whatever their background, @Clavinova, we are supposedly a civilised society and it shouldn't be happening.

It’s beyond me what relevance the level of homelessness in Paris is. And, yes, the foreign aid budget is one of my real bugbears, charity begins at home. I expect I’ll get flamed too.

It’s beyond me what relevance the level of homelessness in Paris is.

It's not relevant to the number of uk homeless but it sets it in a wider context, that this problem appears endemic to other countries which should be equally well placed to be doing something about it

And also if we're on a 10 year catch up (as our current level happened there first ) does that mean we could be looking at 30k rough sleepers in London in another decade?

And if you have it, play by the rules. Pay your rent on time. Don’t over occupy. These aren’t harmful ideas.

The so-called bedroom tax hit under occupiers. Given the dearth of one-bedroom properties within the already depleted pool of social housing, I think that penalising those who, in many cases, wouldn't have had any options to move into a smaller property because the latter didn't exist (and that's before you get to the people who had an additional bedroom for equipment related to their disability, or for an occasional overnight carer but were still affected by the cap) is pretty harmful actually.

I would never vote Tory and I think part of the problem is that we are stuck with them because Corbyn really scared a lot of Labour voters away...
Plus Labour have not been a good opposition for a long time.

I really weep for our country being such a harsh place now for the poor. Also anyone except the rich can end up in dire straits. We are indeed becoming like the USA.......

And also if we're on a 10 year catch up (as our current level happened there first ) does that mean we could be looking at 30k rough sleepers in London in another decade?

Only if we keep voting Tory governments in. We should be aiming to be better, not complacently comforting ourselves that it’s worse somewhere else.

I wasn't saying that at all though

Looking at it as more of a harbinger of what's to come

www.crisis.org.uk/media/239951/everybody_in_how_to_end_homelessness_in_great_britain_2018.pdf#page=170

The above is a good read, bit lengthy, but demonstrates who complex the issue really is. It's too easy to say "Tory Britain", as though a change of government would make a marked difference. It won't. As others have said it is a Europe wide problem, all wealthy countries, of all political spectrums, and all are struggling to cope.

OpheIiaBaIIs
Your graph is here;

Drug poisoning has contributed to the biggest rise in deaths of homeless people in England and Wales since records began.

"Deaths from drugs have more than doubled in the six years the ONS has been recording the data."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49892449

Whatever their background, we are supposedly a civilised society and it shouldn't be happening.

I haven't disputed that - so part of the solution is to give housing and benefits to migrants as soon as they arrive in the UK? Or, house homeless migrants already in the country, but then introduce a points based immigration system?

@Clavinova I know where my graph is from. Thank you for posting the link, however - it illustrates the lack of support for those with addiction issues.

As others have said it is a Europe wide problem, all wealthy countries, of all political spectrums, and all are struggling to cope.

I don't know about struggling, that seems to indicate they're trying, which on a central political level i think isn't true.

The homeless don't carry much clout and not that many people really care. No party thinks it's really gonna lose significant votes over the issue

I agree that some people are making silly political points on this thread, when the homelessness situation is such a complex one. To follow some people's points to their logical conclusion, every single person in Britain and beyond should be entitled to their own individual home in this country. That's a whole lot of people.

As a priority it is the drugs issue that needs to be addressed. In the US homelessness has increased in recent years - and way before Trump - almost wholly due to spiralling drug misuse. You should see Seattle. Portland's problems have increased recently because, ironically, they had a very good homeless programme. What was a good programme thoroughly supported by a liberal population has now attracted "too many" homeless and the goodwill has somewhat evaporated when there are tents all along your (hipster) street.

The homeless don't carry much clout and not that many people really care. No party thinks it's really gonna lose significant votes over the issue

Homeless people can’t even vote, all the more reason for those that of us who can to support them.

In my large SE town there has definitely been an increase in the past 5 years or so. For the last 7 years I have lived across the road from a homeless charity that opens their doors from 6-11am to the homeless. It has facilities for them to shower get a change of clothes and have a cooked breakfast as well as organising any dental and healthcare they may need.

From my observations and overhearing conversations the over riding issues seem to be MH. Which often then is exacerbated with alcohol and drugs. IMO the cut backs on social care services is one of the main reasons for the particular increase in recent years,

For those who are saying, 'so what if it is a political thread' I think that threads started by what is much more than likely an activist or staffer, should be declared as such and
not weakly dressed up as mock naïve, 'does this go on?'

I enjoy political threads but not when they're pretending to be from a mumsnetter. It's insulting, it's abusing the site and it's fake news. WHATEVER divide of the political spectrum they're on.

This one was almost certainly started by a campaign team.

it illustrates the lack of support for those with addiction issues.

And Scotland has the highest drug death rate in the EU;
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

Homeless people can’t even vote, all the more reason for those that of us who can to support them.

These people can't vote either;

^"Latest figures [from 2016] showed that 55% of London’s rough sleeping population were non-UK nationals.Migrants who have No Recourse to Public Funds (NRPF) are particularly vulnerable, unable to access benefits and increasingly prevented from accessing
essential healthcare and other support."^

"It is essential that any attempt to prevent the deaths of people sleeping rough recognises the challenges faced by this group."

What support is the Labour Party offering non-UK homeless people?

This one was almost certainly started by a campaign team.

Who also posts on threads about names, lactose intolerance, plastic vs wooden toys

They've put the miles in to make them a convincing poster

Apologies @OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg that was a mistype and should’ve said don’t under occupy

if they proceed with requistioning property policy

That's not Labour policy in any shape or form. Where do people get this stuff from?

@MoonbeamsandPolkaDots, homelessness is not fake news - you might want to try researching what the term means. I don’t give a damn who starts threads that encourage people to think about this sort of issue. I wish there were more of them.

This one was almost certainly started by a campaign team

Don’t flatter yourself, I don’t think anyone’s that interested in the mumsnet vote