About homeless people?

[Catabogus]

Am I being unreasonable (or more likely, dim) not to understand why there are now so many more homeless people on the streets than there were 10 years ago?

I’m partly talking about London - I have started going semi-regularly in the early morning for work, and I am shocked to see very how many people there are now obviously sleeping on the streets. It’s far, far more than 10 years ago.

But I’m also talking about the much smaller city where I live. There are now people almost ‘camping’ in doorways: they’ve set up sleeping bags and boxes and cardboard and are obviously there night after night, in the cold and rain.

There have always been one or two well-known “tramps” in my city, and one younger man who was suspected of actually having a nice home to go to at night despite making money from begging in the day, but these are now young and old, men and women, far more than I’ve ever seen before, and they are clearly living year round, day and night, in all weathers, on the streets.

AIBU to be shocked? Are we going backwards as a society? Is it the benefits system that is failing and causing this? Or other things I’m missing? I feel really depressed about it.

Drugs and homelessness have always gone hand in hand
@easyandy101, do you mean that drugs and alcohol are driving people to be homeless because they’ve spent all their money away?
Or do you mean that life as a homeless is so hard that people are talking refuse in alcohol and drugs to be able to cope with tier circumtances?

As far as I am concerned, the first point is a MH issue (and according to the latest research a connexion issue) which should be addressed as a a society (and yes that includes the government but not just the government).
In the second, I woud argue that giving a roof to those people ASAP, not several months down the line when their MH has taken a batter, is the right way to go.

In reality, I think it’s 100x more complicated than that.
And that includes that people don’t (and proably can’t) support each other as much as they used to do. (small communities and all that) because people are moving away for work etc... So their network isn’t as good. And people have even less spare cash to be able to support other people (and they are getting more and more individualists - imagine the ansŵer in MN at the idea of having a friend or family member staying at your house for months.....)

You do keep demanding answers of other posters though, and you are basing your assumptions on what you’ve viewed Yourself, Which is obviously completely meaningless. Always good to have a firm start point so you know what you’re dealing with

See my post above -169% increase since 2010.

And I’m not trying to demand answers - I’m trying to see how PPs’ responses on the causes of homelessness (eg alcohol, mental health issues) relate to the increase that I and others have seen. I find it hard to see that alcohol consumption has gone up drastically since 2010, for example, though I may be proven wrong.

@purpleboy, yes the effect of reducing more and more and MH teams is also having devastating effects.

Taking refuge in drugs

There have been a few changes in the drug landscape in the last 10 years. The rise in "legal" highs, the flooding into the market of cheap poor quality benzos. I don't think this has fuelled people becoming homeless i think it is to meet the demand from homeless

I was more just commenting on the notion that the homeless 10 years ago didn't have the same problems or addictions as they do now

This is such a heartbreaking thread.
As others have said there are so many reasons that have caused a large increase ( from what I can see both in the media and in my own town.) I can’t help but think that lack of social housing has a large part to play in this .
So many housing developments have sprung up around my town and are currently underway , yet they always seem to be 2/3/4/5 bed luxury apartments or houses. Many of these are bought in bulk by private property speculators who then rent them out for eye-watering amounts.
This country needs much more by way of social housing, alas, there’s no money to be made from that market.

It's all charity funded, no government help what so ever. The local council even seems to like to make it harder for them to run. The current problem at the moment is the council not having covered the increased electricity usage..

This is a big problem. I feel that the Blair/Brown Government (not that I was a supporter of theirs!) did make a lot of progress on this, in terms of dedicated funding and targets and specific bodies being set up to deal with the issue. It absolutely should NOT be up to a patchwork of charities to sort out.

Eg I have a friend with serious MH. He is struggling to fill any form for PIP and the like. He is struggling to attend appointments too, can’t answer the phone etc...
He can’t work but each and every time he receives a document to fill for his benefits, it ends up a 6 months affair because no one wants to acknowledge how bad he is and give him some some allowances. His CPN can’t help to apply or fill the documents because they just don’t have enough time to do that. He is struggling to get reviews for his medications etc etc.

That puts him in an extremely precarious position BECAUSE he doesn’t get the care he needs for his MH.
If MH was treated I tht he same respect that cancer care is, I’m sure many issues would be solved tbh. Not just homelessness

Its lack of provision and benefit cuts to put it in a nutshell.You have more chance of going to the moon than getting a private rental if your on Universal credit. Private landlords generally wont entertain most people on benefits.
Loads of hostels have shut down, council housing has been sold off under the right to buy and not replaced. Single people will not be seen as a priority by the council. The best they may get is a room in a house which will be a dump, unsafe and full of other people who are very vulnerable and the people who exploit them.
To apply for Universal credit you have to be computer literate as you have to do it online. If you are very chaotic then theres no way you'll be able to this.
Also even to sleep the night in a shelter you have to get there on time and put your name down and behave yourself. They wont have anyone whos carrying on and they can only take so many.
Theres loads of people living in tents in my city, its shocking.
Many street beggars also are not homeless.Lots of homeless people do not beg.

@Enb76 Yes it is a workhouse. A quick google brings up a story of exploitation.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/08/21st-century-workhouse-or-second-chance-my-life-emmaus-companion

If they were also helping people into paid work and giving them life skills, it would wonderful. They are not, it is work 40 hours, we will feed you and and you have a bed. That is a workhouse.

That is a ridiculous fluffy view of historical homelessness.

But some people here have a "fluffy" view of contemporary homelessness issues. There has of course always been mental illness, but mental illness + drugs is a potent recipe for type of issues that a)cause homelessness and then b)prevent that individual from re-participating in society, including living independendly in accommodation.

Those who are anti-hostels, why? A well-funded hostel is surely the best opportunity a lot of these unfortunates could access?

OP is this thread about deciding how to vote? Because the massive rise in homelessness is a known issue and lots of posters have explained the reasons behind it yet you still keep posting asking for 'more' information/evidence. What's your motivation? If we know, then we can help you.

But it's all OK. We have the Royals to support us. Right? Right?!

The Emmaus near me takes released long-term prisoners. It seems a nice place and the work is in their market garden.

I've known some people who have used emmaus to great benefit for themselves

The model is workhouse but workhouse as a word carries connotations that emmaus does not embody

Giving someone stable work and a stable life is helping someone reenter society i think, or it certainly can in some cases

I've spent time in Cardiff and Manchester recently and am genuinely shocked by the number of rough sleepers in both those cities (far more visible than in London). I've got involved (in a small way) with the Centrepoint charity who look to get young people off the streets, into work or training and into proper accommodation - I would recommend anyone who cares to have a look at what they do.

I haven't seen any political party even begin to address any of the points in this thread.

The first to say they will outlaw benefits sanctions and PIP interviews gets my vote.

OP is this thread about deciding how to vote? Because the massive rise in homelessness is a known issue and lots of posters have explained the reasons behind it yet you still keep posting asking for 'more' information/evidence. What's your motivation? If we know, then we can help you.

Hmmm...good question. Maybe! I’m not sure. I think I just wanted to talk about it/see if others had noticed the same/hear from those with more expertise than I have. Where I am, no one is discussing these issues - yet I cannot think it’s ok that we live in such a rich country where people can freeze to death sleeping on the streets.

The thing is though, this exact period of time You’re referring too- 10 years - wehave had a huge general downturn in the economy, due to the financial crisis.

I work for a group of companies that provide everything from million pound apartments to homeless shelters. There is no doubt that one subsidiseds the running of the other. So if you don’t sell those properties, you lose money to fund other products like homeless shelters.

Something else we’ve had to divert funds to is older people’s services, as there is an aging population and a huge need here

It’s an obvious point, but it’s Incredibly complex. You’re not lifting some lid discussing it on mumsnet like a revolutionary, especially trying to get simplistic answers like booze, drugs, austerity - none of these things alone have caused increased homelessness.

And we don’t have the answer, A discussion- (something that HAS been taking place, around the country, for many years, even if you haven’t witnessed outside your office) is the best we can hope for.

Expensive housing, benefits cuts, a reduction in drug treatment programmes and a withdrawal of mental health support services = perfect storm

You’re not lifting some lid discussing it on mumsnet like a revolutionary

Er...what?

But are there many more people with mental health issues now than 10 yeas ago?? Why?

I work with vulnerable people including rough sleeping homeless and statutory homeless. There is a massive increase in MH issues in this country. It's not necessarily that there are more people with MH issues than there ever were, but that poor MH in young people is increasing whilst services have been cut since 2010, and therefore this impacts young people directly - and homelessness is a particular problem with under 35's.

The impact of things like child and adolescent mental health services alongside youth workers, and general MH provision is huge. For example there used to be many more targeted youth workers based in A&E departments who would pick up on young people who had been admitted involved in overdoses or domestic violence situations and start intervention there and then. However these have all been cut and only private charities are occasionally able to provide this service now. So the young person doesn't get the support and the problem goes unidentified. The increase in domestic violence is a big problem.

The main overall cause of homelessness which has risen dramatically over the last 10 years is the ending of Assured Short-hold Tenancies and the problems in the rental market. Councils have had an increase in statutory homeless people in their care and are now at capacity and unable to support the number of people who need it, again down to cuts to LA's. UC and welfare freezes, bedroom tax as well as other benefits cuts like the cuts to education maintenance allowance and student grants have also compounded to make things harder for struggling families and younger people.

So yes, although all governments need to do more, we can definitely trace this back to specific Conservative policies since 2010.

There are lots of reports if you are interested OP. e.g. www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/homelessness-knowledge-hub/homelessness-monitor/

The main thing we as fortunate individuals can do to help is donate a regular amount to a homeless charity each month, and NOT give money to homeless people who beg on the tube etc. When they ask you for money 'for a hostel' this is a made up reason, as homeless shelters do not charge money and hotels only take referrals. The homeless people who use this line are 99% if the time going to spend the money on drugs, which means that a well meaning fiver from a member of the public actually sets back our cause and costs society more in the interactions needed to support that individual. The best thing we can do if we want to help is donate a monthly amount to bonafide charities, buy a Big Issue, donate old suits to charities who support homeless people into job interviews, and volunteer.

Ok-numbers. According to a PP’s link, the Shelter report from Nov 2018 says rough sleeping has gone up by 169 per cent since 2010.

The other PP's link also says this;

"The increase in the number of people sleeping rough has been most marked among rough sleepers from Central and Eastern European countries.This number has increased from 300 in 2007 to a high of 2,900 in 2015/16.This is likely to be a result of increasing migration from these regions over this period, as well as policy changes such as housing benefit restrictions for European Economic Area (EEA) migrants introduced in 2014."

The Lib Dems were in a coalition government in 2014 - which political party is going to reverse the housing benefit restrictions for EEA migrants? Perhaps the Green Party. Vote Greens then OP.

My DH has a severe MH disability. 10-16 years ago or so he was variously referred to a psychiatrist, a psychologist, admitted as an inpatient on a research ward, had a CPN, all on the NHS.

He still has his disability, and if anything it has worsened over the intervening years. We registered with a new GP recently and the MH support he was offered was a list of local charities - Mind, Age UK and the like. There is literally no NHS MH provision available beyond his GP for someone with his disability. It has been slashed to the bone since 2010. Anyone with complex MH needs has absolutely no chance whatsoever of getting the level of care they need - and that is no criticism whatsoever of the amazing NHS staff trying to support their patients and keep their departments afloat on buttons.

Recently he was moved from DLA to PIP which resulted in a halving of his benefits as despite the evidence of his disability being more debilitating now, the DWP decided that this former recipient of higher rate care is now only eligible for standard rate. And he was one of the lucky ones to receive anything.

That is the reality of mental health provision under the Tories. Without me to advocate for him and navigate the deliberately labyrinthine benefits system (and pay the household bills), my DH would undoubtedly be one of the homeless. Anyone who tries to deny the link between a rise in homelessness, especially among those with MH issues, and the political ideology of austerity and defunding the services who could stop people falling through the cracks is either a muppet who has lived under a rock for the last nine years, or a Tory shill.

One of the things I genuinely love about Mumsnet is that I can post a question about anything (plumbing, homelessness, aeroplane routes, Brexit planning, feminism, education appeals...) and there will be several experts who know the field very well and who are willing to share their expertise in a lively and helpful way. I have been here over 10 years because I really value that.

I remember reading this article a couple of weeks ago. Makes for a very sombre read. Also shows it is not often that clear cut to solve. It is about a mother and son who have ‘lived’ on a bench in Tooting, London for many years and their story, despite being offered accommodation in many forms, by the council.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-50211901